Attack of the clones...

Marci · 11-02-2005, 07:44 AM

Hmmm....

http://www.ysun.net/

Takes a while to load here... can't read chinese either...!

Angry_Steel · 11-02-2005, 10:00 AM

Upper right hand corner is an "English" tab, puts most of it into English.

Its the chinese.....everything in the whole country is reversed engineered, even the rice.

TNT2bluz · 11-02-2005, 10:25 AM

Are these your boys Lowthar?

Copy and pasted lock stock and barrel from our website.

Lothar5150 · 11-02-2005, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT2bluz

Are these your boys Lowthar?

Those are definitely not CoolingWorks radiators but I have seen samples of them...If I were you Wilbert I would worry.

TNT2bluz · 11-02-2005, 10:53 AM

Am not worried at all, Erick.

Our legal contacts in China have sent a nicely worded letter to rectify this situation.

And besides, next gen rads are just around the corner and they're not just tweaked versions of existing radiator technology or using old style cheap ass lockseam tubes.

Lothar5150 · 11-02-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT2bluz

Am not worried at all, Erick.

Our legal contacts in China have sent a nicely worded letter to rectify this situation.

And besides, next gen rads are just around the corner and they're not just tweaked versions of existing radiator technology.

Honestly, I think it is absolutely wrong that they used your trademark name.

Next generation rads….Please forgive me if I am skeptical; I’ll wait to see the no bullshit data from Bill.

TNT2bluz · 11-02-2005, 11:20 AM

Brians256 · 11-02-2005, 01:08 PM

OK, for those who don't know what's going on, a quick summary of some of the people:

TNT2bluz: represents HWLabs that makes the Black Ice radiators (among other things)
Lothar5150: represents CoolingWorks which makes CoolRad12-T, CoolSleeves, etc...
BillA: works for CoolingWorks (used to work for Swiftech) but has not commented in this thread
Marci: represents Thermochill which makes the PA160, other rads and such

I think I got all that right.

BillA · 11-02-2005, 01:10 PM

hey guys, cut up a Swiftech rad

"old style cheap ass lockseam tubes"
??

sounds like old style cheap ass sales talk
from HW Labs

superart · 11-02-2005, 01:39 PM

whatever happened to overclock-watercool.com? Thats all we need in here, then we could have our own reality show.

silencedogood · 11-02-2005, 03:36 PM

Hello everyone,

I heard a very rumor regarding the radiator manufactures and retailers. While it is difficult to believe this story and very much rumor, my understanding is that there are a series of emails which could indeed verify this story.

My understanding is that the Oregon Company used the California Company in order to get an exclusive distribution agreement with a company with the Philippines Company and also get that company to lower its price.

The really clever part about it is how the Oregon Company played both sides against the middle. My understanding is that California Company approached the Oregon Company as a source for radiators very similar to the Philippines Company radiators. The Oregon Company was very interested and even went as far as to send samples of the Philippines Company radiators to be cloned. Once the California Company completed tooling of the new but very similar radiators, the California Company and Oregon Company negotiated pricing. After a price was agreed upon the Oregon Company backed out.

The Oregon Company then begins negotiations with the Philippines Company in order to secure an exclusive distribution agreement and lower pricing. The Philippines Company sold its products to OEM Distributors and Retailers alike and did not have a particular interest in an exclusive agreement as this would reduce its margins. However, the Oregon Company now had leverage. Though it could not directly us this leverage less tip its hand. So the Oregon Company used a retailer in New Mexico to request an OEM sales quote from the Company in California and calls several times to inquire about availability. This retailer in New Mexico then bounces this OEM quote off of the company in the Philippines.

The company in the Philippines then become nervous and realizes that it now has real competition and has also been dropped by one of its largest OEM partners (a company on a hill) The Philippines Company agrees to the exclusive distribution agreement with the company in Oregon and does not realized it has been played.

Incidentally I heard that the Retailer in New Mexico actually had the Gaul to thank the Company in California for helping them get a lower price from the company in the Philippines by being leverage for the Company in Oregon.

That is the story as I heard it.

bigben2k · 11-02-2005, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brians256

OK, for those who don't know what's going on, a quick summary of some of the people:

TNT2bluz: represents HWLabs that makes the Black Ice radiators (among other things)
Lothar5150: represents CoolingWorks which makes CoolRad12-T, CoolSleeves, etc...
BillA: works for CoolingWorks (used to work for Swiftech) but has not commented in this thread
Marci: represents Thermochill which makes the PA160, other rads and such

I think I got all that right.

Thanks for the info!

some more:

ysun.net (SysCooling - shijiazhuang dongyuan computer cld) is registered and hosted in China.

hwlabs.com is registered in the Phillipines, and hosted in the USA (MA)

coolingworks.com is registered and hosted in the USA (CA)

thermochill.com is registered in the UK, and hosted in the USA

swiftnets.com (Swiftech) is registered and hosted in the USA (CA)

cooltechnica.com registered in USA (NV) and hosted in USA (IL)

systemcooling.com registered in the USA (MA) and hosted in the USA (VA)

dangerden.com registered in the US (OR) and hosted in the US (CT)

(info gathered from whois.sc )

No implications meant here, just trying to clarify (unsuccesfully) the post by new user "silencedogood" (in Boston, MA ?!?).

[edit: added dangerden]

Lothar5150 · 11-02-2005, 07:27 PM

bigben2K

What about the retailer in NM :shrug:

superart · 11-02-2005, 08:24 PM

just because a company has a URL that is registerd and/or hosted in a particular country or state, doesnt mean it is from that location.

I mean some of the biggest corporations in the US are "headquortered" in a single room with a telephone line and a mailbox on some shitty godforsaken island. That doesnt make it a caribian company.

bigben2k · 11-02-2005, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

bigben2K

What about the retailer in NM :shrug:

I thought about listing it, but I didn't quite see the connection. Here it is:

VOYEURMODS.COM registered in the US (NM) and hosted in the US (TX)

Superart; like I wrote, there's nothing implied here, I'm just trying to make sense of the statement, albeit unsuccesfully. Maybe someone else can pick up on it. :shrug: If it's any help, I'm just going through the posted reseller lists for HWLabs and DangerDen; it would make sense for the trail to start there, but I am shooting in the dark here.

Lothar5150 · 11-02-2005, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigben2k

I thought about listing it, but I didn't quite see the connection. Here it is:

VOYEURMODS.COM registered in the US (NM) and hosted in the US (TX)

I can conferm the part about Voyeurmods.

bigben2k · 11-02-2005, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

I can conferm the part about Voyeurmods.

That being the case, it would essentially confirm DangerDen to be the Oregon company.

The only authorized resellers of HW labs in the USA are:
(from: http://www.hwlabs.com/resellers/northamerica.html)
BeCooling - aka AQUASTEALTH.COM registered in the US (MI) hosted in the US (IL)
Cooltechnica - already posted
Directron - Registered in the US (TX), hosted in the US (CA) (Yahoo Store)
SideWinder - Registered in the US (IN) hosted in the US (CA)
DangerDen - already posted

Something doesn't jive though:

Quote:

...The Philippines Company agrees to the exclusive distribution agreement with the company in Oregon and does not realized it has been played...

Last I checked, HW Labs didn't announce anything exclusive, and neither did DangerDen.

DangerDen appears to be selling radiators from three sources: HW Labs, Thermochill, and a "no brand" (OEM?) set.

The plot thickens.

bigben2k · 11-02-2005, 09:29 PM

Here's another tid bit: the "...been dropped by one of its largest OEM partners (a company on a hill)..." might refer to:

coolingworks.com - whose registration info is listed as:
Armelin Widget Corporation
30141 Agoura Road
Agoura Hills, CA 91301
US

Can you confirm that, Lothar5150?

nikhsub1 · 11-02-2005, 09:29 PM

Well I'm pretty sure the CA company is Swiftech... not very discreet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silencedogood

its largest OEM partners (a company on a hill)

As in Signal Hill where Swiftech is located...

bigben2k · 11-02-2005, 09:54 PM

Sounds logical Nikhsub1; no other company really makes sense.

dacooltech · 11-02-2005, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigben2k

systemcooling.com registered in the USA (MA) and hosted in the USA (VA)

Systemcooling.com Ben??? LMAO

TNT2bluz · 11-02-2005, 10:19 PM

Oh Bill, don't be too obvious, remember your objectivity as lockseam tubes are so 1960's.

It isn't our policy to comment on volumes done by our respective resellers or OEMs, even if they badger us for it or issue a PO which they never really intended to honor. It is always a trend among those who think of them bigger than themselves. Distros on the other hand get good breaks.

But seriously, the rumor mills know nothing more than rumors.

At any rate, in case people haven't noticed, the clone shop has revised its pages in compliance with legal commonsense and copyright.

Case closed.

bigben2k · 11-02-2005, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacooltech

Systemcooling.com Ben??? LMAO

I know, completely unrelated. It came up on a search somewhere. :shrug:

Oh well it was fun while it lasted.

Lothar5150 · 11-03-2005, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigben2k

Here's another tid bit: the "...been dropped by one of its largest OEM partners (a company on a hill)..." might refer to:

coolingworks.com - whose registration info is listed as:
Armelin Widget Corporation
30141 Agoura Road
Agoura Hills, CA 91301
US

Can you confirm that, Lothar5150?

We have never been an OEM partner of HWLabs

snowwie · 11-03-2005, 12:31 AM

lol, if only the wc industry was as dramatic

ProCooling: Where the Pros come to bicker over originality, question other's business practices, burn their bridges, and finally (if there is time left) talk about system testing.

11-02-2005, 07:44 AM	#1
Marci Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 486	Attack of the clones... Hmmm.... http://www.ysun.net/ Takes a while to load here... can't read chinese either...! __________________ www.minimotosidecars.org / www.thermochill.com / www.themusiccollective.co.uk

11-02-2005, 10:53 AM	#5
TNT2bluz Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Secret Staging Grounds Ganymede Posts: 104	Am not worried at all, Erick. Our legal contacts in China have sent a nicely worded letter to rectify this situation. And besides, next gen rads are just around the corner and they're not just tweaked versions of existing radiator technology or using old style cheap ass lockseam tubes. Last edited by TNT2bluz; 11-02-2005 at 10:59 AM.

11-02-2005, 01:39 PM	#10
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	whatever happened to overclock-watercool.com? Thats all we need in here, then we could have our own reality show. __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

11-02-2005, 08:24 PM	#14
superart Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: FL Posts: 787	just because a company has a URL that is registerd and/or hosted in a particular country or state, doesnt mean it is from that location. I mean some of the biggest corporations in the US are "headquortered" in a single room with a telephone line and a mailbox on some shitty godforsaken island. That doesnt make it a caribian company. __________________ When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.

11-02-2005, 09:29 PM	#18
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Here's another tid bit: the "...been dropped by one of its largest OEM partners (a company on a hill)..." might refer to: coolingworks.com - whose registration info is listed as: Armelin Widget Corporation 30141 Agoura Road Agoura Hills, CA 91301 US Can you confirm that, Lothar5150? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-02-2005, 10:00 AM	#2
Angry_Steel Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Torremolinos, Spain Posts: 76	Upper right hand corner is an "English" tab, puts most of it into English. Its the chinese.....everything in the whole country is reversed engineered, even the rice.

11-02-2005, 10:25 AM	#3
TNT2bluz Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Secret Staging Grounds Ganymede Posts: 104	Are these your boys Lowthar? Copy and pasted lock stock and barrel from our website.

11-02-2005, 11:20 AM	#7
TNT2bluz Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Secret Staging Grounds Ganymede Posts: 104

11-02-2005, 01:08 PM	#8
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	OK, for those who don't know what's going on, a quick summary of some of the people: TNT2bluz: represents HWLabs that makes the Black Ice radiators (among other things) Lothar5150: represents CoolingWorks which makes CoolRad12-T, CoolSleeves, etc... BillA: works for CoolingWorks (used to work for Swiftech) but has not commented in this thread Marci: represents Thermochill which makes the PA160, other rads and such I think I got all that right.

11-02-2005, 01:10 PM	#9
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	hey guys, cut up a Swiftech rad "old style cheap ass lockseam tubes" ?? sounds like old style cheap ass sales talk from HW Labs

11-02-2005, 03:36 PM	#11
silencedogood Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 1	Hello everyone, I heard a very rumor regarding the radiator manufactures and retailers. While it is difficult to believe this story and very much rumor, my understanding is that there are a series of emails which could indeed verify this story. My understanding is that the Oregon Company used the California Company in order to get an exclusive distribution agreement with a company with the Philippines Company and also get that company to lower its price. The really clever part about it is how the Oregon Company played both sides against the middle. My understanding is that California Company approached the Oregon Company as a source for radiators very similar to the Philippines Company radiators. The Oregon Company was very interested and even went as far as to send samples of the Philippines Company radiators to be cloned. Once the California Company completed tooling of the new but very similar radiators, the California Company and Oregon Company negotiated pricing. After a price was agreed upon the Oregon Company backed out. The Oregon Company then begins negotiations with the Philippines Company in order to secure an exclusive distribution agreement and lower pricing. The Philippines Company sold its products to OEM Distributors and Retailers alike and did not have a particular interest in an exclusive agreement as this would reduce its margins. However, the Oregon Company now had leverage. Though it could not directly us this leverage less tip its hand. So the Oregon Company used a retailer in New Mexico to request an OEM sales quote from the Company in California and calls several times to inquire about availability. This retailer in New Mexico then bounces this OEM quote off of the company in the Philippines. The company in the Philippines then become nervous and realizes that it now has real competition and has also been dropped by one of its largest OEM partners (a company on a hill) The Philippines Company agrees to the exclusive distribution agreement with the company in Oregon and does not realized it has been played. Incidentally I heard that the Retailer in New Mexico actually had the Gaul to thank the Company in California for helping them get a lower price from the company in the Philippines by being leverage for the Company in Oregon. That is the story as I heard it.

11-02-2005, 07:27 PM	#13
Lothar5150 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Surf City USA Posts: 433	bigben2K What about the retailer in NM :shrug:

11-02-2005, 09:54 PM	#20
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Sounds logical Nikhsub1; no other company really makes sense. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-02-2005, 10:19 PM	#22
TNT2bluz Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Secret Staging Grounds Ganymede Posts: 104	Oh Bill, don't be too obvious, remember your objectivity as lockseam tubes are so 1960's. It isn't our policy to comment on volumes done by our respective resellers or OEMs, even if they badger us for it or issue a PO which they never really intended to honor. It is always a trend among those who think of them bigger than themselves. Distros on the other hand get good breaks. But seriously, the rumor mills know nothing more than rumors. At any rate, in case people haven't noticed, the clone shop has revised its pages in compliance with legal commonsense and copyright. Case closed.

11-03-2005, 12:31 AM	#25
snowwie Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 154	lol, if only the wc industry was as dramatic ProCooling: Where the Pros come to bicker over originality, question other's business practices, burn their bridges, and finally (if there is time left) talk about system testing.

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