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Testing and Benchmarking Discuss, design, and debate ways to evaluate the performace of he goods out there. |
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03-11-2005, 09:09 PM | #1 |
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Spokane WA
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My Test Bench Project Log.
I just as well concede that I cannot give up this hobby so I just as well expand on it. What I want to do is put together a decent test bench for water block performance evaluation and comparison. Being I travel as apart of my job and have little free time while I am home the best way to go IMO is to try and setup an automated system so I don't have to babysit the bench and watch and record numbers manually.
The main goal is to set it up so all I have to do is mount the block and set a flow rate. Equipment I am planning on using. I like the looks of the Adlink NuDam modules. http://www.industrialpc.com/nudam/nudamintro.htm The modules I would get: ND-6530 USB to RS-232/RS-422 /RS-485 Converter This will be the module that makes a USB port the path from the modules to the computer. --------------------- ND-6018 Channel Thermocouple Input Module This is the module that will take the temperature measurements and send them to the PC for data logging and analysis. --------------------- ND-6080 2 Channel Counter/Frequency I THINK this will work to hook the flow meter to????? --------------------- Other Parts of test bench: Swissflow FS800 Flow meter To take mutliple flow rate tests. --------------------- Adjustable power supply (No specific model selected yet). For adjusting the power for the heater cartridge in the die sim. --------------------- Die simulator. This will be based of Bill Adams design. I have a prototype slug made and will have to figure out how I want to insulate it. Final version pending insulation method. -------------------- Needle valve. For adjustment of flow rate. -------------------- Analysis software (not sure what yet). Something to take the data and convert it to something useful. That is the main stuff. Cost will be anywhere from $1,000-$2,000 I am predicting. Would this work or does anyone have a better solution? |
03-11-2005, 10:24 PM | #2 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 219
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Do you want a CrystalFontz 633 Like pHeastus has? I need to sell mine.
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03-11-2005, 10:40 PM | #3 | |
Put up or Shut Up
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Quote:
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03-11-2005, 11:47 PM | #4 | |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada
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03-11-2005, 11:57 PM | #5 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com
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Jaydee does this mean you're repairing the mill too? I'd still like to get a good die sim made too if that's so
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03-12-2005, 11:51 AM | #6 | |
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Quote:
Whenever I get back to the mill I will give it another go manually. Might be a while though. Headed to Georgia for a couple weeks and then it looks like right out to another job after that in Cali. Then the daughter will be moved back and I will have her on the weekends I am home. What I should do is drive up there today and pick the mill up and find a place to use it here.... What do you think of the CF633? Is it possible to get decent results from it? From what I looked up on their site it has an absolute accuracy of .5C, that is ok but most of my own blocks are less than .5C different . The main problem I see is the size of the thermo probes. |
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03-12-2005, 11:43 PM | #7 | |
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CrystalFonts 633
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03-13-2005, 03:36 AM | #8 | |
Cooling Savant
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Cost me 120 bucks plus customs and shipping. $110 bucks shipped would be nice. |
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03-13-2005, 10:25 AM | #9 | |
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03-13-2005, 03:43 PM | #10 |
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For temperatures, I'd still have to recomend that you get a reference thermometer, like I did, from Cole-Parmer (or anyone else you see fit). That way, you can calibrate your own instruments.
The one I got had a range of 19C to 27 C, with 0.1 increments. Accurate to one increment, NIST traceable. The modules look fine. Calibration is going to be what makes your setup a good one. You can add amp/volt measurement later, which is nice. I probably have a spare 2.5 volt reference IC, good for part of a calibration (when you get there). As for a PSU, as you know, I got an HP/Agilent unit (pretty old) off eBay, relatively cheap. There might be some lag (voltage drop) as the unit powers up, but it should be rock steady after a 20 minute warm up (I figure). I have yet to test that one too. How far off are you now from your new year's resolutions? |
03-13-2005, 04:08 PM | #11 | |
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New years resolutions are shot to hell.
I am having secoond thoughts about the NuDam modules. Quote:
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03-13-2005, 09:49 PM | #12 |
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...then you will follow my path... come to the darkside...
I'm in eBay 5 days a week, I'll spot a good unit for you. Just send me a good email addy, in case I come across something you'll want. |
03-13-2005, 10:20 PM | #13 | |
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Quote:
Dosn't do data logging to PC but it does data log by itself. 4 days left on that bid. The e-mail addy I use for this forum should be good. jaydee116 at customcooledpc.com if you find something useable. |
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03-13-2005, 11:51 PM | #14 |
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It could come in handy.
I'm curently tracking: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3880320262 analog output http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3880327141 analog output http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3880915616 Relay output only http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3880919247 Relay output only http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3880930985 Relay output only http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3880705370 Relay output only http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3880988724 Relay output only (8 inputs) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7500415699 Relay output only I'm not planning on purchasing any of them, it's just for someone else's benefit (in this case, you! ) No good pickings here, unless one of the first two has some other kind of output. |
03-14-2005, 12:31 AM | #15 |
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I just got the info on the Flow Meter I just won on e-bay.
http://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/FLO...-VFCIISpec.CFM it is the one in the middle with end connections. Should help flow a little without having 90's on both ends. I got the VFC-141 model. 2% accuracy through the whole scale (whatever that means). It is a big meter at 13.5" tall. 1" NPT conections... Well I am off to Atlanta Georgia on Wendsday. Will be there for a couple weeks. Meter should be here when I get back and I will know if I win that other thermometer or not. From the WBTA thread is sounds like the equipment in my first post should be ok? If so I need to find some logging software to use for it... |
03-14-2005, 02:23 PM | #16 |
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2%, but with 0.5 gpm graduations. It'll do, it's a start.
Good luck on the other unit. |
03-14-2005, 02:39 PM | #17 |
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Today's eBay pickings are much better:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7500805342 RTD only, mA output. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7500628037 RS-485 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7500628050 RS-485 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7500562667 TC or RTD, mA output. (check the model# though). |
03-14-2005, 08:16 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
Looks like I am going to pick up that CrystalFonts 633 from 9mm. With that and the flow meter I picked up I can start some decent testing. With some luck they should both be here when I get back from Georgia. If I win this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEBI:IT auction I will have another toy to play with. Those auction look very interesting. I like the sound of the controler. What kind of pressure deal can hook up to it? Also I assume there is some kind of flow meter than can adjust flow rate automatically? |
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03-14-2005, 08:23 PM | #19 |
Put up or Shut Up
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As for the SwissFlow flow meter i am disapointed to not find any place to buy one easily. I might opt for this one http://store.yahoo.com/pulseinstrume...ewimoinbo.html. I belive they have a version with just an anolog output instead of that LCD display. I asked them for specs and they actually REPLIED!
------------------------------------------- Pressure 300psig/20Bar Full Scale Accuracy +/- 1% I hope that helps. www.pulseinstrument.com |
03-14-2005, 11:12 PM | #20 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Gorky Island, WA USA
Posts: 22
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I haven't used thermocouples.
I guess I'm tolerably familiar with the Crystalfontz 633 and the Dallas Semiconductor / Maxim IC ds18b20 thermometers. ( BB2K is definitely correct in suggesting that you calibrate them. http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/appnotes....te_number/1117 # App Note 208: Curve Fitting the Error of a Bandgap-Based Digital Temperature Sensor - DS18B20 The math in that is not something that I'm particularly versed in. My gerneral sense is that the ds18b20's varry... As I write: three taking temp into radiator are within .15 deg. C of each other, three on the rad out within a .12 deg. C range -- and one of 8 air temps always seems to read a whopping 3 C high no matter how I arrange them. The last time I orderd from maxim they were $2.28 apiece, so culling out a few deviants from a bundle is quite affordable. ( I have ~10 on the shelf ) Last time I tried to focus on calibrating a set, I was overwhelemed by how much more effect the mounting of the sensors had than the error in the sensors. In my case: how well was each sensor measuring the water versus measuring the that which held it in the water. I'm actually feeling thick-headed on the topic at the moment and am wondering what's on sci-fi ... A flowmeter with a 4-20 milliamp pulsed output in a range compatible with fan rpm outputs I've found to be convenient for automatic data logging. http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?r...000&Nav=gref02 is what I'm using. Mine is a tad askew -- I ran watter wetter through it and I think something in that kept causing a low grade nylon bushing to swell and sieze. I haven't had one in my hands or talked to anyone who has used one but I've been window shopping for a doppler or vortex-shedding or magnetic induction flowmeter. The zero moving parts appeals to me. I can imagine ( quite hypothetically for me as a hobbyist here ) swapping in the 5th waterblock into a test bench for the day, wondering if the flow seems low as reported by a turbine or paddlewheel meter, finding some sliver of hose trimmings or whisp of teflon tape stuck to the turbine, and asking myself "now how much data should I throw out?" things on my window shopping list: http://www.flocat.com/products/index...eries&sid=161& http://www.clarksol.com/html/prodspecsDM_01D.htm http://www.thorntoninc.com/products_pfa.htm |
03-14-2005, 11:26 PM | #21 |
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Thanks ToasterIQ2000. I been up and down Omega's site and did not come across that meter. The accuracy is 3% which is probably the worst part. Only $86 is good though. Those other meters you linked are nice.
Calibration is certainly a part of the setup and maintenance program. |
03-15-2005, 03:16 PM | #22 | |
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Quote:
http://www.swissflow.com/ (Thank you WebLinks!) |
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03-15-2005, 03:24 PM | #23 |
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Yeah, mine's mechanical too. I'll be adding a filter to make sure I don't gum up that flowmeter!
I'll be using a simple copper mesh screen for my PC, and I'll probably do the same with my testbench. Linky! http://www.twpinc.com/twp/jsp/produc...pe=3&page=data These are 2" by 2", but you can fold/bend them into a cone, trim the edge, JBWeld a flange to it, and slip it inside of a 1/2" NPT fitting. Follow the manufacturer specs to size the filter mesh. (Thank you Weblinks!) |
03-15-2005, 06:12 PM | #24 |
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I already did e-mail them. No response for days now.
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03-17-2005, 09:21 PM | #25 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Gorky Island, WA USA
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I'm not well rounded enough or experienced enough on this to say something decisive or final on this, but I since I mentioned that Omega flowmeter I would like to say that I've blown two fan headers using it. I'm not sure ecctly why, but I have not blown anything since I wired it up to power the flowmeter directly from the PSU via a spare floppy connector, and sending only one signal wire to the pulse / 'RPM ' / flow monitoring fan header.
It is possible it is soley do to some mistake in my wiring harness: something grounded out... My other 'best guess' is that it only blows resistors near the fan header when the flowmeter is powered but not revolving for a long time. I've only blown the fan headers on my Crystalfontz 633, which does fan speed / voltage adjustments and such. ( I run experiments off something like the 633 so I do not trash motherboard components as often. ) The omega requires a pull-up resistor. Do all computer RPM sensing fan headers have pull-up resistance built in. ( I have done no research and a simple answer here would be neat, btw.) Does the 633 use pulse width management (PWM), I can't recall either at the moment. Anyway, I have this idea that when the flowmeter is stopped it may create some feedback with a fan header ... and pop: one more fan header on the 633 stuck at < 5v forever... I haven't blown anything since I rewired it as above: unmanaged power from the PSU and signal only to RPM monitor. Last edited by ToasterIQ2000; 03-17-2005 at 09:27 PM. |
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