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Unread 04-14-2002, 11:20 AM   #51
Jim
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Here is a better image of the center of the block showing the "chip" noticed by EmC2.


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Unread 04-14-2002, 12:12 PM   #52
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Probably just the Mill head knicked the edge off.
Rotor - Doing just dandy m8 - cheers. Where is your site at now? - i want to link it.
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Unread 04-14-2002, 12:19 PM   #53
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Not a big deal, prolly just make more surface area, and more turbulance

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Unread 04-14-2002, 12:34 PM   #54
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jim are you reading any of this thread? you keep talking about how DD should stop counter sinking the bolts...

they are already doing that as stated in their emails.
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Unread 04-14-2002, 01:01 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by DigitalChaos
jim are you reading any of this thread? you keep talking about how DD should stop counter sinking the bolts...

they are already doing that as stated in their emails.
Yes I read all of it, I realize the post I made above looks like I did not, but I did.

This morning when I read the thread I didn't go far enough back so at first I did notice the post describing DD changes in countersinking procedure.

I commend DD in changing the design.
Also I have emailed Danger Den about replacing my block.

Thanks to all!

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Unread 04-14-2002, 01:41 PM   #56
Brad
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I noticed the chip in the first pic, I just thought it was sandblasting. LOL.

I guess it's due to how thin the copper there is, DDen must have limits on how chipped one block can be before it fails QC.

One thing I have to say, the oring looks really even and very well fitting. Does it just lift out, or does it need more force?
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Unread 04-14-2002, 01:54 PM   #57
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Jessfm you got PM
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Unread 04-14-2002, 05:30 PM   #58
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I'm semi-surprised that the center rib is so thin in the middle to begin with (and that it's reduced back down so much on the back end).

From looking at the first pic Jim put up, it appears each of the "twin channels" (on either side of the center rib) are approximately the same size as the outside channel the rest of the way to the outlet. As a result the velocity of the flow will be reduced a large amount in that central area, with a corresponding drop in the heat transfer coefficient. With the size of the central area, it could be made quite a bit thicker with minimal (probably miniscule) flow reduction. The thinness of the rib will also reduce the ribs heat transfer, tending to make the upper half almost ineffective (as well as the ends). The comment about the trailing edge (farthest from the inlet) was because it would tend to be better to not reduce it back down so much for several reasons.

:shrug:

Be curious to see how much of a change there is over the previous DD block.

And yes, it is very good to see a company stand behind their products and address any problems like Jim had!
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Unread 04-14-2002, 05:49 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by #Rotor
Jessfm you got PM
Cheers m8 - hard to explain about the stuff you do to our mebers without a link
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Unread 04-14-2002, 05:51 PM   #60
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Rotor - you would really need to find out the specific formulation of poly that was used for the top to be able to say for sure. (GE alone has over 170 different blends, lol, with CTEs of in the teens up to the 60 range) If the poly had a CTE in the teens, it would match up well with brass fittings.

Some CTE values:

Free cutting brass - 11.4 uin-in/F

Polycarbs - I've seen from 16 up to 70 uin-in/F

What the numbers mean - multiply the dimension of interest by the CTE and delta temp to find out how much it will grow or shrink.

Example: A 2" thick piece of brass that was going to see a -40F temperature change.

2 * 11.4x10E-6 * 40 = 912x10E-6 or .000912"


Of course the other issue is what cold temps do to a particular kind of polycarbonate (how brittle does it get).
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Unread 04-14-2002, 05:56 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by EMC2
Rotor - you would really need to find out the specific formulation of poly that was used for the top to be able to say for sure. (GE alone has over 170 different blends, lol, with CTEs of in the teens up to the 60 range) If the poly had a CTE in the teens, it would match up well with brass fittings.

Some CTE values:

Free cutting brass - 11.4 uin-in/F

Polycarbs - I've seen from 16 up to 70 uin-in/F

What the numbers mean - multiply the dimension of interest by the CTE and delta temp to find out how much it will grow or shrink.

Example: A 2" thick piece of brass that was going to see a -40F temperature change.

2 * 11.4x10E-6 * 40 = 912x10E-6 or .000912"


Of course the other issue is what cold temps do to a particular kind of polycarbonate (how brittle does it get).
Min temps are not listed for the manufacturers we use, although max are , and all host of other useful(honest) info.
I have emailed them, so possibly get a reply tom.
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Unread 04-14-2002, 05:56 PM   #62
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NP, and please pardon the speed, or shall I say, the lack there of... it is only DSL homebrew.. and my connection is getting squeesed by my ISP, I'm sure of it...
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Unread 04-14-2002, 06:21 PM   #63
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Oh, almost forgot about the O-ring issue. Teflon coated silicone Most O-ring suppliers have charts with more info than you could ever need, lol. (Marco Rubber for an example).
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Unread 04-14-2002, 06:52 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by EMC2
I'm semi-surprised that the center rib is so thin in the middle to begin with (and that it's reduced back down so much on the back end).

From looking at the first pic Jim put up, it appears each of the "twin channels" (on either side of the center rib) are approximately the same size as the outside channel the rest of the way to the outlet. As a result the velocity of the flow will be reduced a large amount in that central area, with a corresponding drop in the heat transfer coefficient. With the size of the central area, it could be made quite a bit thicker with minimal (probably miniscule) flow reduction. The thinness of the rib will also reduce the ribs heat transfer, tending to make the upper half almost ineffective (as well as the ends). The comment about the trailing edge (farthest from the inlet) was because it would tend to be better to not reduce it back down so much for several reasons.

:shrug:

Be curious to see how much of a change there is over the previous DD block.

And yes, it is very good to see a company stand behind their products and address any problems like Jim had!
Emc2
Are you referring to the "width" of the inside channels being the same as the exit channel? The width indeed is the same size about 9 MM.

And regarding Danger Den's customer service I have already been contacted by Jeremy informing me that a new block will be sent Monday. Can't beat that!

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Unread 04-14-2002, 08:44 PM   #65
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I'd like to comment about the "twin channels" EMC2 pointed out. As outlined in an article posted in pH's worklog about turbulence, one way to create turbulence is by having a "sudden change in the size of the channel." This could serve as the sudden change in size, and cause a good amount of turbulence, thus increasing the cooling ability of the block.
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Unread 04-15-2002, 11:54 AM   #66
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...speaking of the Maze3, the Maze 3-1's are now available:


check it out
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Unread 04-15-2002, 02:01 PM   #67
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I was hoping the maze3-1 was going to have a copper top. ahh well.

Jim, keep both and run a duallie :P
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Unread 04-15-2002, 03:29 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
I was hoping the maze3-1 was going to have a copper top. ahh well.

Jim, keep both and run a duallie :P
Oh god Brad that's all I need my second build to be a dual!

I noticed the new style cap screws on the image posted above by Cyco Dude.
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Unread 04-15-2002, 03:33 PM   #69
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Hi all, I'm new to the forums this is my first post, but I've been reading straight for a week, u guys are a fantastic resource =).

Anyway, just got my p4 maze3 in the mail and unfortunately I lost my sd card for my digital camera... so I'll just type.

My block (p4) has the clear top hanging way over the edge with the screws that screw to the block recessed. Are they putting them non recessed aka low profile now and should I send it back? It looks pretty sturdy though as on it the clear lexan top hangs a good 1/4 inch or more from the side of the copper which means the recessed screws with the allen heads are about 1/2 inch in from the edge of the lexan. It looks pretty damn sturdy to me, but I don't want to take any chances.
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Unread 04-15-2002, 03:48 PM   #70
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well after I took a quick spin over to dangerden's site, it looks as though the maze3 I have (p4) is not like any of them pictured, the top is quite larger and the screws are resessed not low profile. I'm pretty sure all the p4 ones are like this.
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Unread 04-15-2002, 06:49 PM   #71
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Those new screws are called button head screws
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Unread 04-16-2002, 12:31 AM   #72
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OK.. I've got my WC system up and running w/ the maze 3, a 1250 pump, 1/2" hose w/ 5/8" fittings almost everywhere. The hose has a very short run... I only used about three feet (low resistance). 1" ID resevoir... the only 90 degree turns in the system are 1" PVC in the resevoir. Overall, the system has very low resistance...
oh.. a Econoline heater core...

My idle temps went from 50C+ to 35C w/ the fans turned down low. (Comair Patriot 6.75" fan. ) hehehee.

ABOUT THE BLOCK... my block has the countersunk screws... Hhmmm. The bottom wasn't very flat. It seemed to sink in the middle... i.e., the edges of the bottom were taller than the very center. Also, the block needed lapping very badly. You couldn't see any reflection in the bottom. I placed 600 grit sandpaper on a table top (flat) and proceeded to sand the hell out of the block, rubbing it back and forth until my knuckles bled, literally. I went through FIVE sheets of sandpaper before the middle of the block began to get sanded (had to wear down the outside first.). Anyways, it's shiny now.
The rest of the block looked good, but this is my first water block, so I have no basis for comparison. I just wanted to share my fun w/ you...
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Unread 04-16-2002, 12:34 AM   #73
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I'm concerned about that warped bottom. DD said they lapped it to 600 grit... I would have emailed them and demanded a new block that wasn't concave.
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Unread 04-16-2002, 12:50 AM   #74
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Well, so far we've only seen chipped, concave, poorly lapped blocks; and cracked, improperly seated, and poorly mounted tops. Also the only temp on record is mediocre... O.K... so we're not off to a good start here with the maze3; but let's give DD a chance and see how things pan out in the week to come.
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Unread 04-16-2002, 01:01 AM   #75
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ECUPirate-
Thanks for posting your temps, but what vcore & overclock are you at with the 35C Idle temp? Seems a bit high for that setup you've got.
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