SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits

Phoenix32 · 09-27-2006, 09:12 PM

I thought I might start a new thread to get some of the messages concerning the SNAP 4000 spread around in other threads into one place.

Okay, radio has provided some logs on a rebuild for the 4000 with OS 4.0.860 and using 4 x Seagate 320 GB drives.

One of the other 4000 owners (sorry, I just can't recall the name at the moment) has a 4000 with 4 x Seagate 4000 GB drives he was going to do some testing on. I am not sure the OS he is using.

I have no idea what happened to DC4 and his 4000 with 4 x Seagate 320 GB drives and OS 3.4.807.

Okay, so you Unix/Linix/BSD software and IT types (you know who you are, lol), what can we determine from the logs already provided? Are there some memory or cache allocations they should try out? Is there anything in those logs that might lead us to a near rock solid idea where the limit might be or how to get around it? Is there more information that needs to be tested and reported?

There is the swap file usage that may have turned out to be something else maybe. There are a few errors being reported here and there. There is also some sectors in the last cylinder not being used, etc... I think Dave (and others)had some good ideas. Did I miss anything?

(hey, I am trying okay?)

Hallis · 09-28-2006, 05:23 AM

I think one thing of importance to note as that, when running a Raid5 in the 4000 with large disks, in excess of 300gb each, It would be important to have a decent ammount of ram. 256mb seems to be a good magic # to start from.

blue68f100 · 09-28-2006, 08:03 AM

If I recall the 4 x 400 gig is using a 3disk array with 1 spare.

Dell's site mentioned that the Snap uses 1/4 of its ram for disk caching. If JVM is not used this can be adjusted up. But there was a small problem that the snap did not like the value he entered and re-adjusted it, which is a good thing.

So far it has thaken the same amount of time to resync after a failure as it did to build the array originally with 100+gig of data on the snap.

Hallis · 09-28-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue68f100

So far it has thaken the same amount of time to resync after a failure as it did to build the array originally with 100+gig of data on the snap.

And in those large arrays as long as 24 hours.

Phoenix32 · 09-28-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallis

I think one thing of importance to note as that, when running a Raid5 in the 4000 with large disks, in excess of 300gb each, It would be important to have a decent ammount of ram. 256mb seems to be a good magic # to start from.

Agreed, but this is part of the current question I think. Do you need more than 256MB for the 320GB drives? Or?

Phoenix32 · 09-28-2006, 03:46 PM

David, were you able to build more on your ideas from the other thread about the cache and memory allocations? Did those logs he sent help any?

blue68f100 · 09-28-2006, 04:08 PM

We still are having problems for build and resync with 300+gigs. The build time should be around 6-7 hrs.

The logs I looked at had the error. The root of the error has not been resolved.

He increased the raid cache. Then when it had to do another function it resized it. I don't recall how larger it went on the cache, I thing 190meg. Where 128 may have been a better number.

Hallis · 09-28-2006, 09:40 PM

But it was successful though, wasn't it?

Phoenix32 · 09-28-2006, 11:50 PM

Weird... This still feels like a bug waiting to snap someone in the butt (pun intended)...

Phoenix32 · 09-29-2006, 11:50 AM

To the guy with the 400GB Seagates in the 4000,

When you built the RAID 5 with the 3 x 400GB drives, how long did that build take? And what is the actual formatted size of those drives (each)? Have you tried breaking the RAID to see if it picks up the other hot spare 400GB like it should? What OS are you using and how much memory is in the unit? Have you tried more memory (if it is not maxed out) to see if it can take all 4 x 400GB drives with more memory?

Dave,

Should this not be similar to using 4 x 300GB drives? In other words, narrowing down the area where things fall apart (get slow). Does it happen when we step up to 300GB or when we step up to 320GB drives? BTW, any more ideas on the cache setting thing? Maybe setting it up in size, but not quite as much as you did in the last test (I think you used 192MB, maybe this time use 128MB)? Might be enough to make the system perform better and handle the 320GB better and yet not cause it to get auto reconfigured due to something else needing the memory? Just an idea...

blue68f100 · 09-29-2006, 01:49 PM

Same problem with raid >1T, Still took 24 hr if I recall. When the array was 3 x 300gig almost the same time as 4 x 250 gig. Don't think the 300 vs 320 made much difference. Ram cache was running at default. One thing that was rather odd on the setups >1T was that the server went through a complete resync every time the unit was shut down and restarted. But don't recall the finer details.

Phoenix32 · 09-29-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue68f100

Ram cache was running at default. One thing that was rather odd on the setups >1T was that the server went through a complete resync every time the unit was shut down and restarted. But don't recall the finer details.

Do you think changing the cache to 128 would change things?

blue68f100 · 09-29-2006, 04:13 PM

NO,

If the server is acting normal it should speed up access. But with the large cache built in to HD's these days, May not.

Phoenix32 · 10-01-2006, 11:33 AM

I am starting to think David, Shane, and I are the only ones who care about this.

blue68f100 · 10-01-2006, 01:10 PM

I think we have beat it to a pulp.

And the only thing we no for sure is 4 x 250gig works, NO PROBLEMS AT ALL

But

Soon as you install 4 x 300+gig,

All kind of little things shart showing up.
4x the time required to build and resync.
System runs a resync on reboots, due to something it can't inturpit correctly.

This seams to be over looked, due to the fact they run 24/7

Hallis · 10-01-2006, 03:01 PM

I wonder if it'd be ok to run 300+ drives in a JBOD mode or Raid 1's. I'll be checking that out as soon as i get my 4000

Shane

blue68f100 · 10-01-2006, 03:06 PM

There should not be any problems with that.

The 4000 younger brother (2000) can with no problems.
Doing so, removes the 1T array limt imposed by Raid5.

cianwill · 10-01-2006, 07:45 PM

Sorry guys...been away. The build on my 4000 with 3x400's takes 24 hours, yes breaking the raid works and incorporated the hot spare. Re-synching takes alomst 24 hours. When I did all this I only had 128MB Ram. I now have 256 and have not tried to do all 4 again...yet. I will have to backup everything and try once more to get it to work.

adisor19 · 10-01-2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cianwill

Sorry guys...been away. The build on my 4000 with 3x400's takes 24 hours, yes breaking the raid works and incorporated the hot spare. Re-synching takes alomst 24 hours. When I did all this I only had 128MB Ram. I now have 256 and have not tried to do all 4 again...yet. I will have to backup everything and try once more to get it to work.

Hmm well as long as it works then i'm happy. I'm mainly looking to aquire an old 4000 and put 4x500G Seagates in RAID 5 in there for a nice little home media server. If a drive should fail, i have no problem waiting 24+ hours for the rebuild, just as long as it works.

Adi

blue68f100 · 10-01-2006, 08:45 PM

It will not work. If you noticed it is with 3 drives not 4. He could not build with 4 drives. Now if you set it up in raid 1, (2 x 500 x 2) You will have 2 shares around 460gig each. Full redundcy.

adisor19 · 10-01-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue68f100

It will not work. If you noticed it is with 3 drives not 4. He could not build with 4 drives. Now if you set it up in raid 1, (2 x 500 x 2) You will have 2 shares around 460gig each. Full redundcy.

Oops.. got all excited there and missed that part :S

Adi

Phoenix32 · 10-01-2006, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue68f100

I think we have beat it to a pulp.

And the only thing we no for sure is 4 x 250gig works, NO PROBLEMS AT ALL

But

Soon as you install 4 x 300+gig,

All kind of little things shart showing up.
4x the time required to build and resync.
System runs a resync on reboots, due to something it can't inturpit correctly.

This seams to be over looked, due to the fact they run 24/7

May be... I am still not sure we verified all the options for use with 3 x 400 or 4 x 300 and the cache etc... But, I will be content myself with 4 x 250 if need be...

Phoenix32 · 10-01-2006, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adisor19

Hmm well as long as it works then i'm happy. I'm mainly looking to aquire an old 4000 and put 4x500G Seagates in RAID 5 in there for a nice little home media server. If a drive should fail, i have no problem waiting 24+ hours for the rebuild, just as long as it works.

Adi

Not without replacing the power supply (and keep in mind it is not a standard power supply). The 4000 does not have enough power to spin up 4 drives of that size (there is an old thread on this subject around here somewhere). It has been tried, and failed each time... The unit just shuts down a second or two after you start it up.

cianwill · 10-02-2006, 01:12 AM

Hang on a second, mine has 4x400 drives in it and runs off the original PS. It just would not complete a raid 5 on all 4, even when I added a second PS to suppliment the power. What I haven't tried yet is all that again with 256MB of Ram (which I now have installed). I will get back to you on all that as soon as I can backup all my data before I start trying again.

Hallis · 10-02-2006, 06:02 AM

I have 3x400gb drives waiting right now. As soon as i get my 4000, which should be tomarrow, i'll see if i can pick up a fourth and throw them in. .

Shane

09-27-2006, 09:12 PM	#1
Phoenix32 Thermophile Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yakima, WA Posts: 1,282	SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits I thought I might start a new thread to get some of the messages concerning the SNAP 4000 spread around in other threads into one place. Okay, radio has provided some logs on a rebuild for the 4000 with OS 4.0.860 and using 4 x Seagate 320 GB drives. One of the other 4000 owners (sorry, I just can't recall the name at the moment) has a 4000 with 4 x Seagate 4000 GB drives he was going to do some testing on. I am not sure the OS he is using. I have no idea what happened to DC4 and his 4000 with 4 x Seagate 320 GB drives and OS 3.4.807. Okay, so you Unix/Linix/BSD software and IT types (you know who you are, lol), what can we determine from the logs already provided? Are there some memory or cache allocations they should try out? Is there anything in those logs that might lead us to a near rock solid idea where the limit might be or how to get around it? Is there more information that needs to be tested and reported? There is the swap file usage that may have turned out to be something else maybe. There are a few errors being reported here and there. There is also some sectors in the last cylinder not being used, etc... I think Dave (and others)had some good ideas. Did I miss anything? (hey, I am trying okay?)

09-28-2006, 05:23 AM	#2
Hallis Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 469	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits I think one thing of importance to note as that, when running a Raid5 in the 4000 with large disks, in excess of 300gb each, It would be important to have a decent ammount of ram. 256mb seems to be a good magic # to start from. __________________ Snap Servers: 1100 - 1x300gb Seagate Baracuda (SnapOS Version 3.4.807) 2200 - 2x80gb Maxtor (one dead) (SnapOS 4.0.860)

09-28-2006, 08:03 AM	#3
blue68f100 Thermophile Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 3,135	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits If I recall the 4 x 400 gig is using a 3disk array with 1 spare. Dell's site mentioned that the Snap uses 1/4 of its ram for disk caching. If JVM is not used this can be adjusted up. But there was a small problem that the snap did not like the value he entered and re-adjusted it, which is a good thing. So far it has thaken the same amount of time to resync after a failure as it did to build the array originally with 100+gig of data on the snap. __________________ 1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5, 1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5, 1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820

09-28-2006, 03:46 PM	#6
Phoenix32 Thermophile Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yakima, WA Posts: 1,282	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits David, were you able to build more on your ideas from the other thread about the cache and memory allocations? Did those logs he sent help any?

09-28-2006, 04:08 PM	#7
blue68f100 Thermophile Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 3,135	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits We still are having problems for build and resync with 300+gigs. The build time should be around 6-7 hrs. The logs I looked at had the error. The root of the error has not been resolved. He increased the raid cache. Then when it had to do another function it resized it. I don't recall how larger it went on the cache, I thing 190meg. Where 128 may have been a better number. __________________ 1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5, 1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5, 1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820

09-28-2006, 09:40 PM	#8
Hallis Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 469	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits But it was successful though, wasn't it? __________________ Snap Servers: 1100 - 1x300gb Seagate Baracuda (SnapOS Version 3.4.807) 2200 - 2x80gb Maxtor (one dead) (SnapOS 4.0.860)

09-28-2006, 11:50 PM	#9
Phoenix32 Thermophile Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yakima, WA Posts: 1,282	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits Weird... This still feels like a bug waiting to snap someone in the butt (pun intended)...

09-29-2006, 11:50 AM	#10
Phoenix32 Thermophile Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yakima, WA Posts: 1,282	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits To the guy with the 400GB Seagates in the 4000, When you built the RAID 5 with the 3 x 400GB drives, how long did that build take? And what is the actual formatted size of those drives (each)? Have you tried breaking the RAID to see if it picks up the other hot spare 400GB like it should? What OS are you using and how much memory is in the unit? Have you tried more memory (if it is not maxed out) to see if it can take all 4 x 400GB drives with more memory? Dave, Should this not be similar to using 4 x 300GB drives? In other words, narrowing down the area where things fall apart (get slow). Does it happen when we step up to 300GB or when we step up to 320GB drives? BTW, any more ideas on the cache setting thing? Maybe setting it up in size, but not quite as much as you did in the last test (I think you used 192MB, maybe this time use 128MB)? Might be enough to make the system perform better and handle the 320GB better and yet not cause it to get auto reconfigured due to something else needing the memory? Just an idea...

09-29-2006, 01:49 PM	#11
blue68f100 Thermophile Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 3,135	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits Same problem with raid >1T, Still took 24 hr if I recall. When the array was 3 x 300gig almost the same time as 4 x 250 gig. Don't think the 300 vs 320 made much difference. Ram cache was running at default. One thing that was rather odd on the setups >1T was that the server went through a complete resync every time the unit was shut down and restarted. But don't recall the finer details. __________________ 1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5, 1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5, 1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820

09-29-2006, 04:13 PM	#13
blue68f100 Thermophile Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 3,135	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits NO, If the server is acting normal it should speed up access. But with the large cache built in to HD's these days, May not. __________________ 1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5, 1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5, 1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820

10-01-2006, 11:33 AM	#14
Phoenix32 Thermophile Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yakima, WA Posts: 1,282	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits I am starting to think David, Shane, and I are the only ones who care about this.

10-01-2006, 01:10 PM	#15
blue68f100 Thermophile Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 3,135	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits I think we have beat it to a pulp. And the only thing we no for sure is 4 x 250gig works, NO PROBLEMS AT ALL But Soon as you install 4 x 300+gig, All kind of little things shart showing up. 4x the time required to build and resync. System runs a resync on reboots, due to something it can't inturpit correctly. This seams to be over looked, due to the fact they run 24/7 __________________ 1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5, 1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5, 1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820

10-01-2006, 03:01 PM	#16
Hallis Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 469	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits I wonder if it'd be ok to run 300+ drives in a JBOD mode or Raid 1's. I'll be checking that out as soon as i get my 4000 Shane __________________ Snap Servers: 1100 - 1x300gb Seagate Baracuda (SnapOS Version 3.4.807) 2200 - 2x80gb Maxtor (one dead) (SnapOS 4.0.860)

10-01-2006, 03:06 PM	#17
blue68f100 Thermophile Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 3,135	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits There should not be any problems with that. The 4000 younger brother (2000) can with no problems. Doing so, removes the 1T array limt imposed by Raid5. __________________ 1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5, 1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5, 1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820

10-01-2006, 07:45 PM	#18
cianwill Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Manassas, VA Posts: 49	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits Sorry guys...been away. The build on my 4000 with 3x400's takes 24 hours, yes breaking the raid works and incorporated the hot spare. Re-synching takes alomst 24 hours. When I did all this I only had 128MB Ram. I now have 256 and have not tried to do all 4 again...yet. I will have to backup everything and try once more to get it to work. __________________ 4200 x4 80 GB RAID 5 M4100 x4 160 GB RAID 5 4000 x4 320 GB RAID 5 1100 x1 80 GB 1100 x 1 40 GB

10-01-2006, 08:45 PM	#20
blue68f100 Thermophile Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 3,135	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits It will not work. If you noticed it is with 3 drives not 4. He could not build with 4 drives. Now if you set it up in raid 1, (2 x 500 x 2) You will have 2 shares around 460gig each. Full redundcy. __________________ 1 Snap 4500 - 1.0T (4 x 250gig WD2500SB RE), Raid5, 1 Snap 4500 - 1.6T (4 x 400gig Seagates), Raid5, 1 Snap 4200 - 4.0T (4 x 2gig Seagates), Raid5, Using SATA converts from Andy Link to SnapOS FAQ's http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13820

10-02-2006, 01:12 AM	#24
cianwill Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Manassas, VA Posts: 49	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits Hang on a second, mine has 4x400 drives in it and runs off the original PS. It just would not complete a raid 5 on all 4, even when I added a second PS to suppliment the power. What I haven't tried yet is all that again with 256MB of Ram (which I now have installed). I will get back to you on all that as soon as I can backup all my data before I start trying again. __________________ 4200 x4 80 GB RAID 5 M4100 x4 160 GB RAID 5 4000 x4 320 GB RAID 5 1100 x1 80 GB 1100 x 1 40 GB

10-02-2006, 06:02 AM	#25
Hallis Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 469	Re: SNAP 4000 Errors and Limits I have 3x400gb drives waiting right now. As soon as i get my 4000, which should be tomarrow, i'll see if i can pick up a fourth and throw them in. . Shane __________________ Snap Servers: 1100 - 1x300gb Seagate Baracuda (SnapOS Version 3.4.807) 2200 - 2x80gb Maxtor (one dead) (SnapOS 4.0.860) Last edited by Hallis; 10-02-2006 at 06:39 AM.

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