Johnson pump deal?

[bigben2k]

No. I've got a few tricks up my sleeve that I'll be trying out. Interestingly, they also apply to the automotive blower...

The glue is for the cheap 1/2 to 3/4" conversion (using the bushings).

Overall though, I'd have to say that if there's a way to make this pump more reliable, with a little TLC and maybe some regular maintenance, it would be well worth it. I'll report results.

[Turbokeu]

Okay, 4.5 months later...

My second Johnson pump arrived well (differred from the first due to a shipping error from Surplus Center).
Drawback is that I payed 215US$ in total for both pumps...
For that price I could have bought an Iwaki..., or two mag drive Johnson CM30-P7 pumps locally...

Everything would have been fine if there wasn't the possible leaking issue with the CO30, I really can't trust those pumps anymore.

However, I tested them in my kitchen sink and I am really pleased about their performance (flow, head, power consumption) compared to my Eheim 1250, although they are more noisier.

I also have to say I have a quite restrictive WC setup (quite a lot of 15mm 90° copper turns) and with the 1250 I obtain a flow of 4.40 liter/min.
My Cascade WB is waiting since a month to be mounted, but I'm afraid that the final flow will fall to a couple of liters/minute.
That's why I was looking for an affordable pump with more pressure and head. (the new Swiftech MCP-600 is not really a contender for the Eheim 1250)

I have to admit that a little pump leak would not compromise any of the components in my setup due to the position and location of the pump (vertically between mobo and HDD cage in a LiLi PC-70 , with the pump inlet downwards), and I can always put a little recipient under the pump to catch the few drops that could possibly leak).

So, back to square one...

PS: Would it be usefull to start a poll about the number of leaking CO30's, and after how much time?

CD

[8-Ball]

Originally posted by Turbokeu
the new Swiftech MCP-600 is not really a contender for the Eheim 1250

Why do you say that?

http://phaestus.procooling.com/pumpflow.jpg (I hope pH won't mind me linkin to this)

As you can see, the MCP600 clearly outperforms the 1250.

Also worth noting, is that it only consumes 9W, compared with the 28W consumed by the 1250, so it is likely that less heat will be added to the water. It is also conveniently 12V, with a brushless motor, so no worry about brushes failing, and it is less than half the price of the johnson magdrive pump.

8-ball

[fhorst]

for a pump I mean...

OK, lets say price could be an issue, so give me some options

setup :
4x heatercore (flow split in 2, and that passes 2 rads each)
WW 1/2"(or might be RBX, I have the WW now)
DD Z Block 1/2"
Inovatec GPU 3/8"
4 x HDD Koolance (6mm)
Res (TBD)

Hit me with the best pumps!

Thanks for the feedback

[decodeddiesel]

Not really a great place to post if you want responses. I would suggest you begin a new thread. To answer your question, if you are seriously going to use 4 heatercores and all the other stuff you list, and therefor the numerous Y splitters, bends, etc. your best bet would be something with a very large pressure capability. Something like an Iwaki MD-20R, or MD-30R. Or you could go with the 2 smaller pumps in series, such as 2 of the afor mentioned Johnsons. Regardless it won't be cheap.

[fhorst]

Got a quick responce this time (thanks)

qurrenly I have 2 L20's running my current setup. That's with a Dtec, a Black Ice, and an astec rad. The astec one restricts the flow a lot, so I want to dump that one, and get 2 extra dtec heatercores.
If I split, it should not hurt the flow that bad. The volume of my rads will give me a good performence.
As I will line them up, this will work better.

[Turbokeu]

Originally posted by 8-Ball
Why do you say that?

http://phaestus.procooling.com/pumpflow.jpg (I hope pH won't mind me linkin to this)

As you can see, the MCP600 clearly outperforms the 1250.
8-ball

I don't know where Phaestus got his graph, but in all comparisons I saw (with the graphs from BillA) , the MCP600 was on par with a Eheim 1048 (in fact slightly better than a Eheim 1048).
See also http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...ghlight=mcp600

When you look at the PQ curves of the 1250 and the MCP600 you can clearly see that the 1250 outperforms the MCP600 except at very high restrictions, but not by much...

So, no question of a MCP600 for me, but maybe a MCP1200...
This is why I was so excited about the CO30P5: more head and greater flow than a 1250 for only 29.95$ (I paid 80$ for my 1250 a few years ago).

CD

[pHaestus]

Graph was from this thread:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=7931

Much more discussion there.

Mfgrs P-Q curves here:

http://www.procooling.com/~phaestus/pqcurves.jpg

Bill's testing here:

http://www.swiftnets.com/Technical/R...mp-testing.asp

All point to the MCP600 being more powerful than 1048 or 1250.

I am an especially big fan of this way of graphing the test results:



So you can clearly see the relationship between the loop's resistance, the pump P-Q curve, and the data points.

[Turbokeu]

Originally posted by pHaestus
Graph was from this thread:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=7931

Much more discussion there.

Mfgrs P-Q curves here:

http://www.procooling.com/~phaestus/pqcurves.jpg

Bill's testing here:

http://www.swiftnets.com/Technical/R...mp-testing.asp

All point to the MCP600 being more powerful than 1048 or 1250.

I am an especially big fan of this way of graphing the test results:



So you can clearly see the relationship between the loop's resistance, the pump P-Q curve, and the data points.

OK...it seems that I didn't read enough on the subject...
Anyway, following above P-Q curves, and having an actual flow of 4.40 LPM with a 1250 and a Maze3, I should obtain about 6.7 LPM with a MCP600 in the same conditions.
Since I have a (restrictive) cascade WB waiting to be mounted in my setup, I suspect those flowrates to be cut by half (at least!) with it, leaving me with 2-3 LPM.
If I remember well, Cathar advised a flowrate of something like 4-6 LPM for best performance for the cascade.
So it seems that I will have to stick with my Johnson CO30P7-1's, or by me a magnetically driven Johnson CM30P7-1 locally (259US$!).

CD

[pHaestus]

Turbokeu:

Some more test results (article coming to Procooling in next day or two) with a more restrictive 3/8" loop. This loop has 2 Black Ice Micro radiators, a Swiftech MC50 GPU block, a Swiftech MC5000A waterblock, and the 3 valve fill and bleed kit all with 3/8" ID tubing. The 1/2" loop is a Dangerden Maze4, Black Ice Extreme, a 1 gallon res, and 1/2" barbs and hose (as before).

http://www.procooling.com/~phaestus/...lowresults.jpg

When graphed over P-Q curves then it looks like this:

http://www.procooling.com/~phaestus/temp/flowcurves.jpg

So 4 L/min is probably about right for MCP600 in your rig.

[superart]

So would the swiftech perform better than the johnson?

[bigben2k]

Errr, no.

The Johnson would challenge an Eheim 1060, which is bigger than the 1250 (which is bigger than the 1048).

The spec flow rates, for comparison (including amperage@12 volt):
-7.1 gpm @ 3.3 feet (2.2 amps)
-5.3 gpm @ 6.6 feet (2.0 amps)
-3.0 gpm @ 9.8 feet (1.6 amps)

versus:

From pHaestus' pump roundup, here:
http://www.procooling.com/articles/h...haestus__1.php

[satanicoo]

I remember connecting a tube to the pump,
I lfted in the air with the pump working on a reservoir, and she stopped pumping a little above my head.

I measure 1,87 meters. I guess it can reach 2.1 - 2.2 meters of head.

Thats why i dont understand the 3.0 gpm at 9.8 feet...

[jaydee]

Originally posted by satanicoo
I remember connecting a tube to the pump,
I lfted in the air with the pump working on a reservoir, and she stopped pumping a little above my head.

I measure 1,87 meters. I guess it can reach 2.1 - 2.2 meters of head.

Thats why i dont understand the 3.0 gpm at 9.8 feet...

You need to hook a pipe to it. Gravity will just pull the water off to each side otherwise.

[satanicoo]

eeerrmm... hook a pipe? what does that mean?
Care to make a draw or something?

[jaydee]

Originally posted by satanicoo
eeerrmm... hook a pipe? what does that mean?
Care to make a draw or something?

Attach a pipe to the outlet of the pump instead of letting the water just blow out of the pump aimlessly. After re-reading your post it looks as if you did that though. So I don't know... :shrug:

[satanicoo]

Yes i did that, putted a tube, the ones of the gardens on it, and connected it.
It did only raised the water to those 2.1 - 2.2 meters.

Maybe its bad marketing like the 2500 hours MTBF?

EDIT:
or maybe its this one from surplus that suks

[fhorst]

Originally posted by bigben2k
Errr, no.

The Johnson would challenge an Eheim 1060, which is bigger than the 1250 (which is bigger than the 1048).

The spec flow rates, for comparison (including amperage@12 volt):
-7.1 gpm @ 3.3 feet (2.2 amps)
-5.3 gpm @ 6.6 feet (2.0 amps)
-3.0 gpm @ 9.8 feet (1.6 amps)

I don't get it.... The Johnson is rated for 70 watts...
2.0A * 12v = 24 watts? @ 318 GPH = 3 times better then the MCP600? at a bit more then double the wattage?

So one Johnson pump should outperform 2 MCP600? and use only little more power. right?

If this is surely the case, I will stop waiting for rev2 of the MCP (who will have a 0.5 meters better head) and get me 2 mag driven Johnsons from surplus! (one as backup, as they seem to fail a lot)

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by fhorst
I don't get it.... The Johnson is rated for 70 watts...
2.0A * 12v = 24 watts? @ 318 GPH = 3 times better then the MCP600? at a bit more then double the wattage?

So one Johnson pump should outperform 2 MCP600? and use only little more power. right?

If this is surely the case, I will stop waiting for rev2 of the MCP (who will have a 0.5 meters better head) and get me 2 mag driven Johnsons from surplus! (one as backup, as they seem to fail a lot)

Indeed.

The difference is that this particular Johnson unit (Co30) has an impeller that's directly driven by the motor, where the Swifty's MCP600 is magnetically driven.

So it's more efficient to drive the impeller directly, but it adds to the complexity: everything has to line up right, otherwise it'll leak, as this unit seems to be.

So if you can handle the lack of reliability of the Johnson (and are brave enough to experiment with a patch or repair), then the Johnson is for you. Otherwise, stick with the trusted mag-drives.

[Turbokeu]

Originally posted by bigben2k

The difference is that this particular Johnson unit (Co30) has an impeller that's directly driven by the motor, where the Swifty's MCP600 is magnetically driven.

So it's more efficient to drive the impeller directly, but it adds to the complexity: everything has to line up right, otherwise it'll leak, as this unit seems to be.

So if you can handle the lack of reliability of the Johnson (and are brave enough to experiment with a patch or repair), then the Johnson is for you. Otherwise, stick with the trusted mag-drives.

Or, if you can afford it, the mag-drive Johnson CM30P7-1.
Same performances as the CO30, but no leaks
Price is 268US$ here in Belgium...

CD

[fhorst]

I'll guess I'll stick to the 2 times MCP600. a lot cheaper then $ 268,-

[dima y]

i just got around to modding the johnson pump like BigBen did try to post some pics later tonight. Right now just running it in my bathtub for fun

[V12|V12]

BigBen2K,
Hey, I was just wondering about the leak issue with the cheaper Johnson pump (the $30 model) Is there any way to just completely seal the WHOLE impellor casing and what not? I mean it would be a bastard to open, but if it's sealed and running, then why open it? Thanks

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by Turbokeu

Or, if you can afford it, the mag-drive Johnson CM30P7-1.
Same performances as the CO30, but no leaks
Price is 268US$ here in Belgium...

CD

2500-4000hr (3-5months) brush-life on the motor for the CM30P7-1, with no user-servicing. I'll pass thanks. Yes, the CM30 uses brushes.

This pump here is a MUCH, MUCH better choice. Have two on the way.

[dima y]

Cathar so that pump you got is better then the CM30P7-1?