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Brians256
12-20-2005, 12:59 PM
I have a friend of a friend that works for Intel in their thermal management lab. I'm hoping to get some perspective on what they think of our current discussions of TTV, DieSim, IHS, and such with respect to heatsink/waterblock testing. I've gotten a couple of responses so far but nothing meaty. Basically, the 1st response was "you're nuts!" and the second is "you know way to much about this stuff: use a TEC or a bigger fan".

There were, of course, other details but I'm waiting for permission to print anything that might be proprietary and such. I hope I didn't scare him off by pointing him to our forums. :D

There was someone else here in the forums that was working on getting a response from Intel as well. How about AMD? Does anyone here have contacts with the AMD thermal management lab? I'd like to get AMD's and Intel's official engineering response to the issues we are facing.

BillA
12-20-2005, 04:36 PM
agreed, the technical democracy practiced here is daunting

BillA
12-21-2005, 12:38 PM
http://www.electronics-cooling.com/html/2005_nov_article2.html

Brians256
12-22-2005, 12:17 AM
Very nice, Bill.

I'm not convinced that is the way the industry is heading, though. I'm more convinced that Intel and AMD will live within the limits of easily manufactured aircooling solutions.

Intel is working on better solutions than spot optimization; they are redesigning the system. The BTX case is a good example. You can have a great heatsink that will do nothing if the case airflow is poor, etc...

I have yet to see what AMDs engineers are doing, but I suspect they have not the budget to do industry changing designs.

BillA
12-22-2005, 07:34 AM
concur on all points
suspect an AMD BTX will show up for the better sink airflow, and the existing cases (a mobo mfgr choice I would guess ?)

RaptorRaider
12-28-2005, 03:09 PM
http://www.electronics-cooling.com/html/2005_nov_article2.html
Lee and Vafai [17] compared jet impingement and microchannel cooling for high heat flux applications. One of their conclusions is that microchannel cooling is more effective for areas smaller than 7 x 7 cm.
Isn't that the opposite of what we've been concluding since the early Storm designs?

BillA
12-28-2005, 03:14 PM
who is "we" ?
many ways to skin a cat

RaptorRaider
12-28-2005, 03:25 PM
Don't hesitate to show that you are not part of that "we".

Brians256
12-29-2005, 12:54 AM
Lee and Vafai may be right or wrong, though. I still file that paper under "interesting" and "wonder if they are right" categories. It is very good to have people examining the issue scientifically, though.

RaptorRaider, not sure what you are implying by your last post. If it's just sniping at Bill (whether you are right or wrong), I would please request that you just be polite and open.

By the way, I still haven't heard from my contact at Intel. Either he's busy for the holidays or he's filed me under a column of "safer to ignore".

Anyone else have good contacts into Intel or AMD?

billbartuska
12-29-2005, 03:33 AM
Anyone else have good contacts into Intel or AMD?
Wish I did. Just denied a RMA on two FX-55's...EOWEE! That'll leave a mark!

BillA
12-29-2005, 06:19 AM
lots of contacts, and I keep such by respecting confidences

RR
no cups from me, perhaps you confused me with another (group) ?
no not interpret my silence as agreement as I am incerasingly less inclined to argue with the ignorant
(way too much controversy for way too little progress, arguments do not improve products - think data not opinion)

RaptorRaider
12-29-2005, 12:01 PM
Lee and Vafai may be right or wrong, though. I still file that paper under "interesting" and "wonder if they are right" categories. It is very good to have people examining the issue scientifically, though.
I suppose there isn't a free (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MImg&_imagekey=B6V3H-3VGGNFK-2-1&_cdi=5731&_user=10&_orig=browse&_coverDate=05%2F01%2F1999&_sk=999579990&view=c&wchp=dGLbVlz-zSkWz&md5=a6ebd5e7006f6d77007a5702b8454afe&ie=/sdarticle.pdf) link for the rest of us? :(
RaptorRaider, not sure what you are implying by your last post. If it's just sniping at Bill (whether you are right or wrong), I would please request that you just be polite and open.
That post was not meant aggressive (and definitely not a "right or wrong"-thing) in any way if that is what you are thinking.
Please do understand that English is not my first language (no cups from me?) and that I was simply hoping to get more out of Bill than just a short idiom; I thought he was the one who did not seem open.

BillA
12-29-2005, 12:25 PM
RR
normally cryptic, too often on 'older' topics

"cups" refers to Cathar's G series wbs; stellar performance but at a price, I prefer more simple mfgn methods (a different price/performance target)
- nothing new, note the uproar over the Apogee

EDIT
http://www.sematech.org/meetings/past/20041025/Thermal/03Thermal_Garimella_TRC2004.pdf

Brians256
12-29-2005, 10:10 PM
lots of contacts, and I keep such by respecting confidences

Agreed. That's why I haven't named the person who I was talking to, nor have I posted most of what he said (didn't get permission).

BillA
12-30-2005, 06:58 AM
and the truly sad aspect of "procooling" is that the experts here are so knowledgeable that Intel's work is now dismissed by speculation,
unless of course an independent tester has confirmed the validity of Intel's claims

the proverbial mote of dust thinking its the tail of the dog
why a serious person would be involved in the caterwauling here is a valid question