Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

It's not difficult, you could mill with circular saws at a thickness=0.3mm in copper but life tool is not great (very small cut edges). 1mm is quite big here.

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

Post122

Possibly ,even,an understatement.
An illustration using simple ,possibly inappropriate,Waterloo approach
http://www.jr001b4751.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Apogee11.jpg
Only exploratory thoughts using simple h(eff) profiles.
Suspect that real profiles are more complex.
Particularly,for comprehension of Apogee data,that of the single inlet onto pin array

However,
possibly a spiral would do nearly as well in reality for modern CPUs where high Watt concentrates can develop.

Know SFA about CPUs however it is possible that it is the control of these local high flux densities that concerns the processor developers.
Maybe they do not care a monkey's 8888 about the performance of a Heatsink on a 10+ sq mm Heat Die.
May still be all about TIM.
Would classify an IHS as a TIM with HeatSpreading properties

Incoherent
Good to see some progress on flux and temperature modelling for the Flux-die.
Am mid-stream between rads and wbs and having focusing problems.
I have not yet formulated anything worth posting in the Flux-die thread.

Anyone have the real dimensions of the Swiftech MCW6000?

Edit1: Have graphs for intermediate dies an other wb models: may post as attachment later.
Edit2: Added attachment: Resistance vs Die-area graph

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

Slotting saws on an arbor.
Heres a pic of a .02" slotting saw I have on an arbor cutting .125" deep in aluminum:
http://stuff.jfettigmachines.com/slottingsaw.jpg

It is very easy to rip through aluminum, I have not tried copper yet.

Jon

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

... what I wouldn't give for a nice machining center.

Santa? ;)

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

bigass sled, don't wanna mess with those raindeer

a LOT more difficult with ganged slit saws

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

wow a lot of talk and no action..........looking forward to seeing ph's results :)

so is every customer going to have to crack their block open to clean it up.......:laugh2:

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

maybe the blocks ship with a sand blasting setup ;)

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

lmfao... classic.

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

That is pretty cool. Have not seen a saw like that before for metal. Makes more sense why the tailings are left attached.

Bruce at cooltechnica cuts .5mm slits in his bases and dosn't have any issues with shavings that I noticed. Probably just trying to cut to fast.

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

The first I shown is a 3 cutting edges saw, generally too thick for milling such tiny channels. This one below is better with smaller cutting edges (like JFettig's pic) :
http://www.meca-carbure.com/administ...0129115732.jpg
Thickness can be 0.15mm -> 0.15mm channels wide possible (need extreme care and slow advance :D) . It's not a problem to use 0.5mm saw when channels are not too tall, which is the case in the MP05.

A polish friend made 0.3mm channels on 8mm height (!!) using saws, it's really the limit because copper is too soft and bend very easily under milling constraints (EDM is better here) :
http://membres.lycos.fr/roscool/foru...ter/piter1.jpg

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

jaydee, thats a big fat keycutter like thing, they actually can plow through pretty good sometimes.

Those .3mm fins look quite small and easily messupable.
I dont think i would want to cut much smaller than .02"

Jon

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

Roscal, thats one nice block there. :D By that i mean machiningly wise of course. The height of the fins are not that optimal for heat transfer considering the fins are around half a milimeter. :) But still, thats some awesome work! :D

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

So I still havent seen any info from Swiftech about the QC issues that these blocks have... If I was gabe I would be all about making this stuff right cause big chunks of copper flowing around your system isnt really a good thing.

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

... nor is having a cracked top due to weak molding...
I still havn't got a response from anyone about this.

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

They should be recalled if more than a few blocks have these problems.

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

The thin/weak molding is especially bad as far as I am concerned. copper in the loop could clog up a raidator, or wear down an impeller/housing ... but having the top of a block open up and dump .... lots of money could go away then.

Orkan I would think that if you want to get more mindshare on that specificly why not start a thread about the quality issues with the Apogee. that seems to be what you are focused on and I thick could be useful.

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

seams all we have to go on is the opinion of an Xswiftecher who implys there test bed is fine and there data stands.... till some1 we all trust tests it (looks at ph) its all wild speculashon/wet patches/dead pumps

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

for sure the opinion of any/all is superior to actual experience
ah procooling, at heart still fanboyism

flatline you are an ass, my 'opinion' is based on facts and experience - something no one else here has with a TTV
repeatable data is defined as good, the bed and method are defined by Swiftech
- it is Stew who is speculating and casting aspersions on a test platform he has never used, and of course his followers who have 'trust' chime in like hounds on the scent contributing nothing but speculations – any and all of which trump any facts

I'm waiting for Stew to tell us the data is wrong, but he already has.
wrong data is a null concept, it is correct or not
if you are unable to understand this, set your filter for those you 'trust' (select Stew not BillA)

did Stew approve your ‘trusted source’ list ?
will you share it with us ?
is there a hierarchy to resolve conflicts ? or is that done by vote ?
or by Stew directly ? (he is the ‘most trusted’ no ?)

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

i didnt bring any names to my post

"ah procooling, at heart still fanboyism" says king fan boy himself you allready posted all about "swiftech ripoffs" b4 actualy looking what post was on about

"for sure the opinion of any/all is superior to actual experience" did u personaly test the water block? if so pls post YOUR results in YOUR icle kingdom

"I'm waiting for Stew to tell us the data is wrong" im waiting for his gpu block (long overdue) strange what we wait 4

"set your filter for those you 'trust' (select Stew not BillA)"
il set my filter to ppl who are not just about to insult other ppl and inflate there own sence worth

"did Stew approve your ‘trusted source’ list ?"
you seam obbsessed with stew do you have a crush on him ?

"will you share it with us ?"
there is no us there is you on your all knowing thrown and us "uninformed"

"is there a hierarchy to resolve conflicts ? or is that done by vote ?
or by Stew directly ? (he is the ‘most trusted’ no ?)"

stew stew stew its all his folt (crush showing again?)

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

http://clegg.procooling.com/forum/intarweb.jpg

I am starting to think the Apogee is just a bad F'n omen. I don't think theres ever been this much controversy over a block.

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

free advertizeing rules!

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

Really, nice comeback. I mean... well... Ugh.

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

just annoyed that a good methodology was dismissed by speculation
that others follow w/o analysis is regretable

you realize that no testing will change the performance of the wb ?
we are spectators

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

wud like to know as his name seamed to have jumped in to a post ALOT id quite like to why he was pointed to no less than 4 times out of the blue? another thread gone off topic? oh yes we talking about testbeds.... right..

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

I got an idea... why don't you 2 hop into chat, and sort this out.. just click the link at the top of the page, then you can get this all taken care of without the tennis like batting back and forth.

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/javachat.php

right there

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

The "U.S. Open" of the procooling forums.

....anyone else notice that this thread has become ENORMOUS?

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

I made 2 posts on this page, is that a problem Joe ?
you hyper too ?
I put fl on the ignore list, done here; I'll let the thread be as well
Ta

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

No bill not hyper, just dont want to see another 4 page argument break out. a lil drama is cool, but maybe its just me getting tired of it this weekend. (pretty much I would like to be able to go back working on the site and not having to referee a thread..)

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

Not even sure what the argument is about anymore. I don't like to rely on manufacture data anyway. Not that it is wrong but it isn't verified and not verified on a platform that I would use.

But it really dosn't matter at this point. The block isn't even functional at this point it seems.

Re: Apogee from Swiftech...
 

I think all of us should be thankfull that someone who has had direct contact and experience with a TTV has posted about it here.
It is made by Intel (who has massive R&D budget) whereas those here cannot even make a stoneage heatdie setup that a caveman would appreciate.