Both work for money.

One deals with "head", but would rather not, while the other strives to achieve "head" as one of their goals.

Both know a lot more about certain things than most other people do.

Both enjoy being referred to as deities.

A few others sprang to mind, but modesty prevents me from posting such.

I gota hear about this one...how about some beers I'm buying :cool:

Well, you might call it a bit of trolling, but I really do agree with the other quote i posted.
And I do agree with the first half of the second quote - just not the part where it starts comparing whores to other tradespeople. But it was quoted for completeness.

And trolling - in a thread where "hope is the stuff of religion, frauds one and all" is said, i believe it was more on-topic.
:)

If you add the word "organized" in there then it would be more accurate. Organized religion is the biggest hoax/scam/prank of them all. I passed a sign today that said "tithe if you believe in jesus" because the church wanted to add a basketball court. Sorry, but thats scam, pure and simple.

Agreed, it is a scam. But all religion is as bad, organised or no, its fairy tales and self-deception.

Quotes are atrributable to robert a heinlein - my fav sci-fi author ever.

Have you read "For us the living" yet?

I have no problem with faith or a belief in "something else" or "god" or what have you. I just think the line should be drawn right there -- its your beliefs and your views. Don't be so insecure that you need to force them on others. Don't use them as an excuse to be an ass or to do things that are wrong or hurt others.

But I know enough to know that I don't have the answers. There may be a god/gods/superman/super robot or some really smart rat collective. This may all be one gigantic organic computer. I don't know - and so I won't say that all/any beliefs are automatically fairy tales or self-deceptions. (I'll just think it really hard.)

Bill, how many of your new pumps have died? any deaths? either by swiftech or dangerden(or whoever else retails these).

Just curious,
Jon

Not even self-proclaimed hardware reviewers?

Sorry to get off topic here but I wanted to recount my experiences with the CSP750MKII. The first one I put in ran fine for several months before the shaft seal started leaking and corroded the motor. It was very quiet sitting on foam. The DDC that eventually replaced it is about as quiet. I replaced the first CSP with another I already had, this one started out making a lot of noise from the get go. I was planning on leaving it in there till it failed but the noise eventually passed my threshold of annoyance and I replaced it with a DDC after about a month.
BTW the first CSP had a motor mount screw that was stripped out so the impeller was hitting the housing. CSP sent me a new center section (with motor and impeller) and I rebuilt the pump with that and had no further trouble until the shaft seal failed.

The system I had the pump in was sealed, no atmospheric air bleed. I think it's possible the temperature cycling caused the system pressure to rise high enough that it forced the coolant past the shaft seal. This may have aggravated the design weakness.

I would not recommend using the CSP750s. Get a DDC.
I've heard that C-systems is working on a sealess design, if they can get a reliable product to market at the same price point as the CSP750 they'll have a winner.

MCP350 ? none
I cannot speak for others as Laing sells direct
I have 2 with something peculiar related to their starting, still investigating those

Well, so far since we begun carrying the CSP Pumps (we're main UK Stockist afaik) we've had no returns on them whatsoever. Only one that came back for being dead was only dead cos the customer had screwed the barbs in too far and they were physically stopping the rotor... however, the timescale involved is relatively short, and nowhere near long enough for me to draw any conclusions at this time. Towards the end of summer enough time should have passed for any of our customers to have experienced issues along lines of those mentioned here on these forums and rma to me, and I should have some figures of quantity sold vs quantity returned vs period of time between sale & return...

So far tho, over the past... er... 6 years.... returns levels are as follows (over the entire 6 years)

Eheim 1048 returns - 3% of total 1048 stock sold (total sold being towards the thousands to both Watercooling Enthusiasts and aquatics suppliers etc etc)
Eheim 1046 returns - 4% (no longer carried)
Eheim 1250 returns - <1%
Eheim 1260 returns - 0%
DangerDen DD12-D4 / Laing D4 / MCP650 - <0.5%
DangerDen DDC - 0% (so far)
Swiftech MCP600 (original model ? back when it first came out) - 80% (but all repaired and now still running fine afaik)
CSP-750MkII - <0.2%
Hydor L20 - 4% (hence once current stocks run out, ceasing to carry - slowest seller of all pumps)
Hydor L30 - 6% (hence no longer carry)

Think that's all the pumps we've ever carried... other than the first watercooling kits we carried, the Senfu ones, with their integrated pumps. That was more a case of 100% of those sold (3 of em) ended up in the bin when WaterWetter caused the whole pump/res ensemble to split and disintegrate!

Hydors have by far been the worst we've ever had to handle in terms of returns levels. Still recouping the losses now... however, the Hydor failures have all been when used with TEC based systems where coolant temp has been fairly high afaik, but not high enough to warrant killing the pump imo. Certainly 1250s fitted in the same systems are still running fine to this day, after a number of years have passed, as all Hydor L30s that came back to us at that time were replaced with 1250s due to our own lack of confidence in their reliability, and our trust in the reliability/warranty provided by Eheim.

Eheim 1046 and 1048 are what I refer to as "artificially higher" in return rates. This was due to all the returns being at the time when we were Innovatek resellers and the pumps were being run on 8mm ID tubing. I'm putting restriction down as the cause for the high number of failures resulting in noisy impellers and suchlike for those two pumps, but since stopping selling Innovatek products and therefore stopping carrying the 1046, we haven't had a single return on the 1048 since all blocks and hardware carried by our store became wholly 1/2" ID based, altho sales have also dropped dramatically on the 1048 in recent years.

I'm still waiting for our new batch of CSP pumps (the sealless CSP-MAG) to arrive which should be any day now...

However, my figures above MAY be useless, as I can't say how many of our customers have taken advantage of the Direct-to-Eheim 10 year Replacement warranty rather than RMA-ing to us...

fascinating info Marci, Thanks

all pumps have a history and often it is the difference in experience that is most enlightening, in this case our experience is quite similar
Swiftech initially sold Eheim pumps and while very good there were failures in the 1-2% range
the Siccie pumps were a horror, I decline to say more but the warranty claims are still trickling in
the MCP600 initial problems were sorted out, but again a low level of failures has continued - 1-2%
the Laing pumps have been an enjoyable experience from a claims perspective
- I would almost say a good move for the industry, and with a few more tweaks should be the cat's meow

That is great information Marci. Thanks for posting it. Bruce at Cooltechnica told me at one time that Hydor had changed some of the parts and the mfgr process to increase profits at the expense of quality. And that the older pumps with 3 prong connector were significantly better made than the newer pumps without the ground. Personally the only pumps I've ever had problems with were: Rio submersible back in the day, Danner Mag3 leak and housing crack (fixable though), and Hydor L30 (got super noisy after ~ 30 days and this was one of the older pumps too). I've never had an incident with any other pumps I've used.

"I've never had an incident with any other pumps I've used."
and I'm pretty sure this is the experience of most users given the fairly low failure rates . . . . .

unless they had the misfortune to buy a Siccie or original MCP600 (both from Swiftech alas),
or this latest which seems to have had a rather spectacular demise

a guy on another thread is now asking about 'their' new mag drive, I guess this is 2 strikes and you're a winner ?
gonna take some proving to me

I'm also an anomoly because I tend to have a particular loop running for a few months at most and then will reconfigure with new parts that have come into my possession. That's quite a bit different from "typical" use I would guess.

I would even guess that most here are quite into changing out hardware as well,
same old lunatic fringe thinking we are mainstream
lol

Umm, this place reeks of mainstream Bill! :p

and we are, we are
but only here

My watercooled computer has a watercooled computer. And even THAT computer's cooling system is overkill :)

pHaestus don't make me watercool my TiVo!

Shit. I just read this thread in its entirety rather than today's new posts. The digs on professors are pretty baseless; most in the physical sciences are pretty honest and dependable folk. Now plenty have huge egos. That's not so surprising when the competive grant writing environment means that you have to build youself up as Christ's second coming to get money. If you're awarded enough money then over time you start to believe your own hype.