Seems to me Bill is trying to figure out if Gabe intentionally is not paying him what he is owed or of Gabe simply does not have the cash to pay him?

Is this the right way to figure it out? I don't know.

In any event Swiftech dose not appear to be making much money. Not nearly as much as I suspected. Their year to date stats are what I would have expected for a month.


Interesting thread though. Hoprfully not harmfull to anyone.

a lament Stew, no expectation of a positive action by Gabe who signs all checks

what is a negotiation regarding a unilaterally terminated payment of a commitment expressly agreed to ?
you are telling me that after 2yrs 4mos I should be begging Gabe to begin again to repay me ?

next,you would suggest that I act "through the appropriate legal channels"
no Stew, when I have to go to a lawyer I have lost
period, it is written off
that then was the starting point of this thread

be as realistic as is the market, which depends not on the approbation by me of corporate management
(in English, Swiftech products sell on their merits - as they should, no suggestion otherwise eh ?)

"when you feel that they owe you money?"
no, feel is not correct - its on the balance sheet
politically correct speech is crap, I do not need your aspersions

be grateful your exposure is x-fold less than mine
read those statements, I did not attack Swiftech - Swiftech is dropping into a hole
looking for a Santa Claus shortly

No aspersion here Bill. I don't know the full story. Just commenting on what's been presented here, which is just one person "lamenting".

Knew I should've kept out of it. Am just seeking to propose a more congenial resolution. Clearly that's not welcome, so I'll take my comments elsewhere.

Swiftech is now a publicly traded company and its finances are a matter of public record. Bill asking questions about Swiftech solvency based on such records are legitimate and no grounds for a legal action.

comeon, sure its welcome - just not realistic
good solutions are real ones

Agreed. No one likes dirty laundry....keep it between you and Swiftech

Hmmm, a suggestion to seek resolution through the appropriate legal channels is not realistic? As opposed to what? Having a public bitch-fest about it here at Procooling?

Good friends tell the truth Bill. Regardless of how hard it is to swallow.

Completely wrong IMO. News organizations bank on "dirty laundry". it is what brings in the largest ratings. Conspiracies and wrong doings are what makes shows like "Cops", "Law and Order", "CSI" and similar so popular. People love it! :D

hmmm, perhaps I worded that incorrectly.

much of america likes dirty laundry....but I'd how things were a little different here. the focus of this forum is exploring extreme cooling...not exposing companies

click on bro
someone refusing to pay an agreed repayment should NOT expect me not to tell 'their' world what they are doing

have you actually dropped 60k to a previous employer ?
not your $, nor your problem: click on bro

you would have employees be silent so more employees could be deceived ?

Cathar
wages are paid before general creditors, I have a very real, immediate, and ongoing interest in the actual financial state of Swiftech; all the more so since Gabe stopped paying me

I will be paid
what about those set to lose their jobs ?
there are many dimensions to this

I would have employees handle things in a more....traditional manner, through legal action.

Do you think ProCooling actually impacts Swiftech very much at all? I assure you, teh majority of Swiftech buyers do NOT frequent these forums.

I am sure there is a side to the story we are not hearing.

I'm now not at all sure its malice, the financial statement is dire

legal action favors the employer,
no intention at all to impact Swiftech buyers - where you seeing that ?

lol, always another side

Not sure what you're on about Bill. What is "click on bro"?

Is Procooling a Swiftech staff forum? Is Procooling an investor financial advisory site?

$60K in unpaid salary? How did it get that high? I would've been walking out the door at $5K.

Like I said, I don't know the full story. I don't know what agreement there was between Gabe and yourself regarding your salary. I find it a little difficult to understand how you would ever allow an employer to owe you $60K in salary though. Different matter if it were a contract. If it was a contracted arrangement then disclose the terms of that contract while we're all here now. If it wasn't, and you allowed yourself to be taken advantage of to the tune of $60K in unpaid salary, then I don't know what to say.

Like greenman100 says, seems to me that there's a side we're not hearing. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we don't know the full story, and airing it in public at a cooling enthusiast forum is certainly not informing the investors nor particularly helping the rest of Swiftech's employees reach an understanding that they probably already have reached themselves if Swiftech was actively engaged in short-paying staff on agreed salaries.

hmm, into it now
the details in summary: 50% deferred compensation, no interest, no min pmt, no max pmt time
payable at sales goals - met but not profitable
-> no pmt to endanger financial well-being of co

ok, I am an ass for agreeing to such and a 10-fold ass for staying almost 2 yrs
I had a specific agreement to train Stephen and be repaid, Gabe got what he needed and stopped paying me

responsable companies do not discard employee obgliations in such a manner (I worked 10+hrs/day)

Don't play "just in America" bull shit. Conflict gets people's attention, it is used and abused by everyone in the world.

Also are you sure this site is focused on Extreme Cooling? I have only seen a couple extreme cooling projects since I started coming here. Seems to me the focus of this site is cutting the bull shit and improving information about cooling.

According to those reports that maybe the issue. They don't even have $60K ifI am reading it correctly. It also dosn't look as if they will anytime soon.

Indeed, everyone thats vaguely western/UK loves that kind of bullshit - look at soap operas and the likes.

Bill, i will keep out of this discussion, but just out of curiosity for us that not hang around here so often and like to know more to this story. Who is this Stephen? And why did you train him? Could he fill your shoes just like that at Swiftech, with all the knowledge in the area that you have behind you? Is it realy possible to train another Bill? ;)

I don't think unpayed salary would get any attention unless it was done on a massive scale. Def. not soap opraey enough most people.

I'm gonna have to agree with a few other people in this thread. what exactly does this accomplish? I only see public complaint as hurting whatever chances you have of resolving this in your favor, no matter how slim they may be.

But I'm confused, did you agree to a 50% differment w/o a contract? or did the contrac simply not specify a time for the loan (if you can call it that) to be repaid?

It looks like over half of the total current assets are not easily converted to cash. Only $142,791 in cash or easily converted assets and $166,706 in current liabilities. That puts the company $23,915 in the hole on top of an $11,879 loss for the 3D QTR. All the reports show that the company has used $56,287 of $59,000 on its line of credit with the bank. It is highly unlikely that the company can obtain more credit with these financials.

Based on the financial record the company has clearly been mismanaged financially. This is a lesson on how to have a great brand and product line then fail.

@Cathar we have had a few disputes on the importance of good leadership/management, let these financial statements be clear real world examples what happens to a company with out good leadership/management…innovation only gets you a quarter of the way home.

I hope no one bought stock on a hot tip…

No one ever complains about insider tips when they make money. However, everyone comes forward with they loose money.

I have seen allot worse as far as finacials go. A few tweaks on expenses (lay off an employee or two/find a cheaper rent etc.) and they are profitable, it looks to me that you could get your cash out if you were aggressive(put some liens on property? )

I think what I am shocked about is the gross sales volumes, when I sold real estate I had occasion to sell a couple of small bussiness. The little corner deli's would gross about a 750k-1.3 mill with net profit 200-400k.

I thought there was more meat to the hobby water cooling market - for all the noise, reviews, discussion etc. you have a slew of mom and pop's, taiwanese small shops all chasing after a pretty small pie

Cheaper rent and terminating a couple of employees is not going to improve these financials. The problem is much deeper.

No, I recall our "disputes" were about your marketing bullshit, and about you crying "innovation" when none was on show.

I have no idea how you arrive at your statements. Seems to me that you just say whatever the heck you want to say 'cos you feel like saying it, regardless of any basis in historical fact or whatever statements were made before.

Leave me out of your incoherent ramblings. I want nothing to do with you. I really don't care what you have to say.

Stephen M. (don't remember spelling), aka Zytrahus, is a young very bright, very educated engr who was/is David's sidekick at Cooling-Masters. That Gabe has chosen NOT to publicize the hiring of someone with his capabilities can be explained only by Gabe's relative insecurity (Gabe's title is CTA, Chief Thermal Architect).
Stephen specialized in testing, understood my crude equipment immediately, and started improving the data collection immediately. Additionally, given his superior education, his analysis capabilities (CFD) are beyond mine.
The other difference between us is my greater experience, but Stephen will catch up quickly given access to good data. Stephen's ability to impact Swiftech will be constrained by the same limit I had, no money for R&D/prototyping

I trained him as part of an agreement to preclude my immediate resignation due to nonpayment, this was the last is a series of broken agreements
but hey, the switch from a high cost employee to low was made
which is ok,I AM a dinosaur

There's a lot more than you think, Cathar. It hit me about 12 years ago and I gave up lots of money to have a more meaningful life. If you ask me, the blue collar people in the US are (by and large) nicer to be around.

Actually I don’t ever recall crying innovation with regard to CoolingWorks radiators. I do recall saying it outperformed the BIX.

As for the reference comment, a while back you made some churlish comment about Dilbert and I pointed out that managers need to be good generalists.

As for bullshit...how about you fainting neutrality in this issue regarding Swiftech. Clearly your have an interest in not seeing anything affect Swiftech sales, as Swiftech #1 block is your Storm.

pretty sure that is not Cathar's main source of income

Wow some more wild and entertaining accusations. It seems theres been a focus shift at ProColing. It used to be all about theological and political, now its "Lets bash people and/or businesses with wild assumptions!"

No doubt. However, there is an interest economic and/or personal.

Indeed. Glad I didn't get into the "business". :cool: