Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

OK I am gonna chime in here with my thoughts and perhaps some optimism?

I think that if I were to start posting technical content that Les, Cathar, Bill, and co would all come out of the woodwork and the site's tech discussion would revive. I feel a little guilty for having avoided doing so.

But my hangup is that I really don't think that the testing people expect me to do is actually needed or justified. My honest opinion is that any commercial wb you pick up now is going to perform well enough that it is not the limiting factor in your cooling loop. So mounting simplicity, looks, personal preference (brand identity) and cost become the major deciding factors. It has been that way for a while. Also the waterblock designers are slowing waaay down as well. I haven't tested a waterblock in over a year, and I think I missed 2 products in that time that are of note: The cooltechnica wbs and the Swiftech Apogee.

So what I think is really needed is something quite different from high tech water cooling component testing. What people really need (when I say people I mean enthusiasts in general and not just Procooling regulars) are guides on how to best mix and match components for their needs. A well-written article that compared all of the different reservoir/filling solutions and loop placement of them would be more USEFUL than 100 more waterblock reviews. A series of reviews of commercial cooling systems and the resulting airflow/cooling in a test system would also be more useful. That old "euro vs. US cooling system contest" if it had happened was a step in the correct direction compared to where we actually ended up.

Honestly people come to this site still because they trust me and Joe to tell our real opinions on products and they have that trust because history shows us to be (mostly) qualified to give those opinions. If we transitioned to more generally of interest testing questions then I think we could still make some good progress in advancing/championing water cooling.

But I don't think I can get much enjoyment or do much good at this moment by "just" testing wbs.

comments?

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

got my vote
the system defines the performance
even pumps can be offset by component selection

when I get the wind tunnel going I will provide the theorists with data to choke a horse

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

Holy thread hijack!
It's great though. You guys are having a great discussion. If I can throw my 2 cents in:

This site is alot like me. I (and this site) have pretty much solved the water cooling problem...I'm getting overclocks good enough to post on other forums...so what next? For me, the joy is in the planning and execution. Like this site I'm looking to something else to plan and execute...silent computing doesn't intrest me, nor does home theater. I'd like to "pop some tops" but without some guidance (BillA....DATA!) it's kinda like jumping off a cliff...and that's where this site is...as you have been discussing...what's next? What cliff to jump off?

For me, I'm currently bighting into air removal,. I have the tools and knowledge I need to jump off that cliff.

When one of the best blocks ever developed is taken out of distribution for marketing reasons what's the point of new water cooling threads here, much less the development of a new testbed?

I love the challenge of "figuring it out". And I hope this site (and it's members) do also. Because a forum is a communitie's "work in progress" I'll just have to wait and see what happens...and through my 2 cents in every now and then!

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

The only thing I honestly had FUN testing in the last couple years was that Swiftech MCW-CHILL

I think if you're bored with wcing and the enthusiast scene that going sub-zero with totally impractical and expensive solutions is kinda like going to a bed and breakfast for bored married folks.

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

give me time pH, I'll provide you with excitement

BTW, I asked JoeC for a distributor name for his impending thermosyphon when available - but got no answer
perhaps my admission of competitive knowledge queered the inquiry ?

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

Oh and fwiw Bill I think your suggestion of the grooved socket 775 is the BEST way to test whole systems.

I just don't have the $$ atm and so I'll trudge onward with bare die A64.

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

I'm not a tearful kind of person, but that whole mess was sooo unnecessary
I too am strapped so cannot help

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

I am as the logon says a Nobody ... but I recognize this and lurk and read more than I will ever post. The WC I built, I built based on the knowledge of the people here and on other Forums.
WC has gotten boring ...mostly because of the lack of innovation for solutions. PC is the only forum who has recognized this. Proving to me the fact that you guys are the leaders and forerunners for all those other sites. The people at the head of the pack see the cliff long before the mob will.
Personally I think the stagantion is because of the big players entering the arena and flooding it with bling and simple lug and play solutions.
Yes Bill and others this may seem like crap, but I can't think of an industry that continued to innovate at a rapid pace once the established companies started throwing their weight behind mainstream easy products. Big companies don't believe in risk or research anymore.
Well that is my post for the next 6mos .... piss poor crap probably ...but back to lurking for me ....

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

hmm Bill actually

Looks like a socket 775 PIV and mobo is about $300CAD

And I have 2 socket 939 mobos and a 939 AMD 64 as "spares" at the house that were going to be for testing. I might be able to swap these out and more or less break even...

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

grooving ?
I'll send you mine and we could do the 2 at the same time ?
we should ask Lee and Ice Czar too, they may well join ??

sure be nice to get a bunch of us on the same wavelength

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

I think Jaydee pretty much solved that issue with the engraving shop suggestion?

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

IMO, what the ProCooling forums need is an arbitrator.

Differences of opinion are one thing, but it's detrimental to ProCooling when these differences get out of hand. An arbitrator would assist in focusing a discussion towards an agreement, wether it is an agreed upon difference, or a coming to a single conclusion, by asking both parties to clarify their positions (things get out of hand mostly because of mis-interpretations, IMO).

I respect Joe's choice of letting this forum be pretty liberal, I think it's a good thing, and by "adding" an arbitrator, it should be possible to maintain that. My 2 cents.

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

I know how to say **** off, I choose to speak for myself thanks
not for me Ben

pH
I never found one, jd declined to do so
ideas ?
in your town ??

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=89468

looks like another forum is one step ahead of procooling...
or is it behind?

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

hehe something I do find funny, is when someone machines a grove in their IHS people are shocked and amazed at the act ;) At procoooling you would get no such reply, more like "well you have any numbers now? if not stfu!" hehe

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

That's an AMD64 so Procooling remains ahead. We already deduced that there are issues surrounding that chip's construction that make grooving the IHS worthless for longterm testing.

So I guess sitting around and bitching saved us SOME hassles :)

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

I like that avatar much better pH :)

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

a poisonous purveyor of bad info
but to his credit he understood what was said here and on the H

ah, lol - AMD !
he still slammed his dick in the dirt
I retract what credit I gave, the same fool as ever

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

I believe i mentioned his type earlier in the thread

If you're going to do something, at least do it right
AMD64 w/ flexible TIM, yeah, that makes sense... I mean sure, at least something is being done, but the usefulness of the possible test information is highly questionable.

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

a pool for the # of cycles ?
(IF he establishes a baseline, and reveals it !)

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

He'll have plenty of blocks to test...

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

I actually looked into it locally. One place still has the the equipment to do it (they bought it from us in fact) but they don't have the tooling and don't want to attempt it anyway. The other 2 engraving shops switched to laserable products and phased out rotary engraving all together. :doh:

Even if you were to get the thing grooved the process to properly set the probe would be difficult for even an advanced DIY'er. At least that is what it looks to me on the Intel doc's.

Anyway my interest in working on comps is pretty much gone. Not just cooling wise. I am finding myself annoyed every time someone asks to help them with their comp anymore.

Maybe life is just catching up to me.

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

After 20 years in front of one, I'm too.
I think it's just saturation.

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

Yep, same here... sadly they're a necessity tho... :(

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

computers as fun ?
never, I am so incompetent that the guy who fixes mine charges me $50 extra if I have removed a side panel

just a tool that I cannot do without
my wife needed a 'better' computer so I bought a $500 HP pos from Wallmart
another error, slower than justice

hi ho

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

I wont lie, this thread isnt what I expected when I clicked on it!

My views are that watercooling is just becoming more commercial, and as pH says - many people buy kits now so that is what people want to know about.

Anyways I like it here, deffinately the best watercooling forum on the web, simply because you guys know what your on about :)

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

Fun yes. games, porn, etc. thank <insert your deity here> for the internet.
patience for the hassles (mainly hardware problems), not anymore.
Used to build systems, do the whole "IT" thing. Brrr.

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

Ex-actly !
And that would set ProCooling apart (and ahead of the pack), no doubt.
Think system integration, not full-DIY builds.

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

And Gabe is so wrong on this :( There is STILL a place on market for a strong *all copper* passive solution. The Reserator (to name it) was a success even with the online press showing it didnt perform. IMHO Swiftech has now a strong brand name recognition, just as Zalman, and if they decide to package a full system with a purpose (ultra quietness ? uber overclocking ?) people will flock to it, just because of the brand name.

Alienware and Apple were the only ones to sell a watercooled system to the general public, and see the exposure in the online world they had, just from the hype it generated ("OMG they're putting water in a computer, look at how it works") - hype = free advertisement.

Re: Well! There is a third way!
 

afaik the weather in Melbourne is unlikely to drive him off his bike...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/c...ml?tt=TT003020