Guys, listen to Gabe when he says flow is rather overrated. Chip also did testing on this (well he said he did) a few months ago, and they both say that often times extensive flow can decrease performance, and that there is a sweet spot to be found.
-Kevin |
Hmmm..
I went to the Switech website and part number MCW371-B-1/2 is avialable in 2 weeks. Looks like those 1/2 barbs are right around the corner! |
Yea Kevin no doubt. There are two factors at play: getting the baseplate temp as close to the water temp as possible by increasing flow rate (more is better to the point that you just can't do any better) and then keeping the water in the radiator as long as possible so that you maximize the heat transfer to air. So one part of the system likes more flow and one likes less. I personally prefer to use less restrictive tubing and fittings and a smaller pump though rather than have to use a big pump to force water through little pipes. Personal preference I guess. My opinion is that you can always tune your flow downwards by adding in a ball valve but if your flow is too little then you are forced to upgrade your pump or move to bigger tubing and fittings.
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which is why I always say if you have the room, run two radiators in parallel, the water goes through the block at full speed and at half speed through the radiators.
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Brad, running two radiators in a series yields a flow going through two different radiators. Running them in parallel yields half the flow, half the water, going through one radiator. The effect is more or less the same (assuming they are the same radiators).
-Kevin |
Except that in parallel flow resistance is decreased as aposed to increasing in serial (compared to a single rad).
There are other slight differences (serial allows lower coolant temps in low heat systems, while parallel gives greater efficiency for high heat systems), but for most of us there'l be nothing noticeable. Edward |
said it before and i'll say it again. i not only do not reccomend THIS swiftech block, i can't reccomend them as a company either. their products are overpriced, under produced, and in the 2 dealings i had with them i got screwed. i would probably buy a block from CHIP before i sent a single dime thier way.
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while this is true for some, i don't feel it is true for systems using heatercores. reason being, from the extensive testing done over at overclockers by BillA (nobody can fault him for his testing procedures), the base temp of block decreased with more flow. great, everyone knows that already. well if you look at the chart for the heatercore heat dissipation, you notice there is barely any drop at all in the dissipation as flow is increased. for the other radiators yeah there is a sweet spot, but for the core there is barely a drop, and after the drop there is still enough capacity for a simple system. couple this with the benefit of higher flow for the block, and i say open the floodgates. |
Yeah, the big momma is basically flat throughout the graph, so is the serck, but they all showed a peak at some point, which is dependant on the rad.
I still think run two rads in parallel, that way your overall system flow can be double what it was before, to keep your rads at best efficiency. http://www.overclockers.com/articles481/bptempvflow.gif this shows that the waterblock loves high flow rates, while http://www.overclockers.com/articles481/dissvsflow.gif shows that at 2gpm, none of the rad's are near their peak. but if we ran the water at 2gpm, and rads in parallel, we'd get 1gpm per minute, which is at the peak of the Serck radiator. |
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-Kev |
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hey LiquidCool, since you are here, any chance you can tell me when you will have the leviathan shrouds ready for sale? its early February, and i really want one as i am lazy to make my own. i actually made one, but it looks like isht. assuming that the make of that core is from 1975, it should fit fine right?
please let me know. |
i think a simple ball vavle in the system to tweak the flow rates will find the sweet spot.
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"Gabe has finally decided to design a Block with 1/2" I/d barbs. It's threads like this that has convinced him."
OPP I'm glad that fwding this thread to Gabe worked ;) ... Let's see how the new MCW462-Us perform with 1/2" ID fittings... I hope the inside will be 1/2", too :D I'm going to e-mail you soon as I promised... I also want to see the details of your system... It sounded pretty impressive on the phone with 6 x 80W pelts on the waterchiller etc.... will be great if you can post some pics to the forum, I'm sure others wanna see the great performing beast as well... On Swiftech blocks... Guys I started watercooling with Swiftech WBs and I think they're great looking and good performing blocks... I think Gabe is trying to do his best to serve the watercoolers' needs... on the other hand I must admit that had some issues with the fittings as well. as I use silicone hosing, I either cut 3.5cm long copper pipe as tube inserts for the swivel elbows, or entirely changed them with standart fittings (lemme tell you, it's a diffucult task:) )... Anyways thanks to Gabe, it's great news that there're some improvements in that area as well... Also I have another news for the watercooling community... I'm opening up a new online store for you guys... My web site is almost finished and will publish it next week or so... I want to offer all favorite H2O cooling stuff at one place for reasonable prices... basically I'm planning to carry all the popular items... I really appreciate it if you can help me out in this by e-mailing me your favorite items (hardware, acessories, basically everything that you want me carry) at dacooltech@cooltechnica.com... also any new ideas are wellcome... promise, I'll do my best to serve your needs... To Joe and all procooling staff: You guys rock ;) I also want to discuss with you how we can make things better for the watercooling community... Cheers, Bruce |
if they dont change the fittings i'll do it myself :D :evilaugh:
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"if they dont change the fittings i'll do it myself "
Pyrotechnic, yes you can change the fittings yourself, but that doesn't change a thing because the diameter of the inside hole will remain 1/4" NPT... so I think Gabe is going to redesign the block, not sure though... Bruce |
whoever said i couldn't drill them out ?:shrug:
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hehe yeah sure;)... I never tried it myself though...
post the results, so we'll see how it went... http://www.swiftnets.com/_borders/internal_chamber.gif |
the inlet looks like you could drill it, but i dont know about the outlet
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dacool, if you want to carry everything, do this:
maze1c maze2 a couple of cheap blocks 1x 120mm fan sized heater core 2x 120mm fan sized heater core Black Ice's danner pumps eheim pumps T's, Y', 90 degree sections, silicone tubing, clamps, misc fittings, resivoirs, fan shrouds for your rad's, etc |
Thanks Brad,
We'll be carrying Swiftech and DangerDan products... Also I might offer CPUFX products as well.. also we're getting a batch of BI primes and BI Xtremes in March... No Danner pumps in the beginning, only Eheims but soon we'll add some more different brands... peltiers, and some mean well switching PS... Entire line of Arctic silver products... Delta and JMC fans... and all the fittings, T's Y's, 90 degree elbows, other misc. accessories, insulation products (conformal coating, neoprenes, dielectric grease etc.) and eventually there will be more product lines we'll be carrying... Also in late March we'll be offering barebones and complete aquacooled systems... including dual AMD based aquacooled workstations... Our website is finished and currently we're testing it... As soon as we get most of the products in stock we'll publish it (theyr'e on their way ;) )... Take care, Bruce |
don't stock a single cpufx thing. their rad's suck, the pumps are crap and the z4 is shit
other than that, sounds cool |
i'd really like to see silicone tubing, just dont rape for prices like DD does.
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Brad thanks for the advice, I'll think about it...
Basically, currently we're planning to put their products in to the store... but if there's no demand or their products are not good as others then we won't, it's as simple as that... Pyrotechnic , we'll do our best to offer the silicone tubing as cheap as possible, like all other items in the store... actually when we start placing orders in volume and locate better sources for the same quality products then we can come up with the best prices... basically it all depends on demand... cheers, Bruce |
I am sorta torn on Swiftech products: I REALLY like the 3 valve fill system and the eheim pump and their blocks look great and perform well enough. But I have heard that the valves have a tendency to spring leaks (several users have told me this), and I can't stand 1/4" ID tubing. If I were stocking their parts I would be interested to see how well they stand by their products. From that perspective Koolance seems a great choice. They certainly aren't the performance leaders but they stand up and pay for mistakes that they make.
/me waits for flames from praising Koolance |
Both Swiftech and DangerDan are managed by professionals who are watercooling enthusiasts themselves, and I'm sure they'll do their best to stand by their products...
pHaestus our goal is to offer different brands and products at one place... just like any other place on the net selling standart aircooling stuff... You can get anything you like, and don't get the ones you don't... if there will ever be a complaint about the products that we carry we'll take immediate action, don't worry... That's why I'm asking you guys to give me feedback on products you like and trust most, because we want to offer only the best;) Personally I'm sick and tired of trying to locate all the items over the net and end-up paying high shipping costs... other than retail parts, all our kits will be custom configurable so enthusiasts can mix and match the products that they like most... Currently we don't have any interest in Koolance products... I personally hated their old Packard Bell looking case... nowadays they started using Chenming/Chieftec cases (aka Antec 1030/1040, Enermax 710) but still don't like the rest of the parts they're using... for example their dual pumps in that acrylic reservoir push only 16GPH!!!... I never used a pump in my systems rated lower than 150GPH... but if they improve their systems to our own standarts in the future, then we may consider offering Koolance products, too... BTW we'll be offering our own custom configurable barebones as well... You can get more information on them when we put the site on the web this week... Take care, Bruce |
I haven't heard of too many bad experiences with either DDen or Swiftech. The two problems seem to be DDen taking a couple of days to answer emails, and the Swiftech's leaking around the barb area, but thats rare
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I know of problems with the CPUfx reservoir/pumps but I am not really familiar with the performance of their blocks. Have you used one Brad? Just looking at it, seems like it would perform pretty well. It is basically the same spiral design fixittt uses with narrower channels it seems.
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it's also not proper copper, the channels have a cross sectional area of a 1/4" ID tube, it has plenty of 90 degree angles.
I've seen a couple of people around the place changing between maze 2 and z4, and the maze2 is quite a few degrees cooler always |
Brad:
I was just reading this review: http://www.ipkonfig.com/Reviews/Misc/Blizzard-Z4 and the reviewer really seemed to think the CPUfx kit was stellar. :) Ah I thought the channels in it were rounded but I went back and loooked at the pics and indeed there are lots of 90s in there. I wonder how it compares to the Z3 that won the roundup? |
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