Well scratch that idea for me then, I don't have any way to seal my system airtight.
TigerOats, So the viscosity was pretty much the same for ethanol as antifreeze? I noticed your water solution temperature is about the same as mine and your cpu temp is also about the same, what kind of pump are you using? |
Using a submerged Maxijet 750. Running a T'bird1.33 AXIA Y at the moment at 1630 at 2.05V and my temps are around 7C at -13.5 which is the stabilised temp. At -21c its around 3C.
Saw no difference with the ethanol. The family threatened to kick me out if I didn't remove it because of the smell ;) |
TigerOats,
Have you measured your flow when your water is at -13.5c ? The reason I ask is that with a 2,653 liter per hour pump I'm only get about 454.8 liters per hour around that temperature. So I was wondering if your flow was around 129 liters per hour or not (since I'm only getting about 17% of my rated flow, was curious if you were also). The odd thing is if I go by head ratings for my pump (which I don't think I can, but it's interesting anyhow) that would put me at about 3.05 meters. The reason that's interesting is that your pump shuts off around 1.5 meters. Since I only have about 3 meters of 1/2" tubing and a mcw462-uh waterblock (supposed to let lots of flow through) I wouldn't imagine that my tubing or block is slowing stuff down any more than your setup. Anyhow it would be very interesting to know your flow numbers at that temperature. |
I am getting around 120L/hour and tubing length is 2m.
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That's pretty interesting, so I wonder if we can apply the 17% number to any pump or not (at least for a 40-50% mixture of antifreeze & water @ -13.5c).
I'll make sure and do tests with my danner 12 once I get it in. If that's correct then I should see 773 L/hour (or 204 gph). It'll be interesting since it has a bit of a different curve than the danner 7 I have now. The 12 stays strong for most of the curve and then drops fast at the end, and the 7 is more linear (not quite linear but more so than the 12). |
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I wonder what they're using it to cool exactly? Maybe the drilling rigs?
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My system is just about done.. all that is left now is to vac pump it.. fill it and.. well test it! :) These things will get done tomorrow.
I will try to test my pump flow at the lowest temp. IF all works right.. I am hoping to see -15F or better on the water with no load and guessing a realistic 10F with load.. but who knows.. anyway.. Wish me luck. |
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Did you post pics somewhere? |
LOL ben.. no i haven't contacted any HVAC shops.. heh.. No need for that now..
No pics right now.. I will try to get my friends digital cam as soon as I can. All I have to do today is vac pump the damn thing n fill it.. we shall see how it works! |
Right now my system is sitting in a vacuum :) ANd HOT DAMN! IT's actually holding! WOOHOO!! Wasn't expecting it to.. but.. it is.. praise the lord! LOL
Anyway.. I was at autozone today and i got this r-134a tune up crap.. anyone know if i can charge my system with it?? It has oil and this performence booster thing and r-134a too.. i gotta read the can i guess |
If it used to have R-22, then you CANNOT recharge it with R-134A: the stuff in R-134a will react with the remnants of the R-22 corrode right through the system.
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no sh!t ben.. don't take me for a newbie dude.. getting tired of it..
it's an r-134a system.. i've mentioned this like.. a thousand times.. |
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In any case, I'd go with the R-134A kit that you picked up. I've been reading up on this performance boosting option, and it seems perfectly reasonable. So what's the process that you're going through anyways? What's this about vacuuming out your system? How do you do that? Did you put in a discharge/refill valve? How do you gauge how much R-134A you should have in there? You know, we keep asking stupid questions, because our level of understanding stopped where you left off, and because phase change cooling is really out there. To paraphrase a famous actor "We're in the dark here!!!" |
Sorry dude.. but I don't need anyone telling me the basics of refrigeration heh..
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You have to vac pump the system once it is all together to take out any moisture that may be in the system. What happens is when the system is closed and you put it in a vacuum.. any moisture inside will boil and get sucked right out.. it's pretty amazing considering that the water boils even though the whole system is at room temp. Wonders of a vacuum like that of outer space! :) It also proves to me that the system is closed and my solder job wasn't so bad after all. I am using a vac pump.. I forget the name/brand.. it's a refrigeration vac pump. I cut the factory fill line (which looks like a little.. hmm pig tail..) coming out of the compressor.. it's not easy to miss.. seeing how its crimped and soldering off.. I cut that.. put a longer piece of copper tubing on it that goes above the compressor and then I put on a shrader valve. Not sure about the filling of it.. that is one spot am I not to sure about. Although from my best beliefs and what my friend says who has been doing phase change systems for a while.. I am told to start the compressor, start putting in freon until the evaporator starts to cool.. then stop adding it.. let it sit until the evaporator stops getting cool.. then let a little bit out just until the evaporator starts to get warm.. then.. wait until it stops getting warm.. then put in a bit more freon until the evaporator starts getting cool again.. then leave it.. ssooo.. We shall try that method. He said that this will leave you with the best performence.. Plus.. I use gauges.. and all that crap. Anymore questions.. ask. |
I think you've got enough information to put together an article. Whatever your results are, we are all certainly learning a lot from your work.
(aka thanks for sharing!) |
no problem.. if this system works good like I hope.. I am planning on putting together another one.. this time smaller.. and sell it.. probably for around 400.00ish.. considering the benefits of being able to cool any part of your PC that has a water block.. Possibilities of even being able to cool your PC through very cold air.. using the water chiller design.. and a radiator.. but who knows.. my first step is if this works.. is to make a smaller model.. a lot smaller.. something that's portable and will fit under the PC.. something like that..
I suppose I could do a write up if people wanted.. and if I do this again I could supply pics and all.. sort of like a step by step thing.. Maybe pro cooling would give me some funds to do another model if this one works good :) Considering I blew so much down on this one.. I don't really have the desire to foot another one entirely out of my pocket. Any more questions.. ask me. |
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT USE METHANOL UNLESS YOU WANT TO DIE. That said, it can be used if you are extremely careful. You will be better off using ethanol from a chemical supply store at your local college. The properties are very very similar and ethanol isn't a nerve toxin.
Lets be smart here and not send a dude to his untimely demise. The extra 1-2C isn't worth it. |
I'd laugh my ass off if someone died.. lol
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You know some dipsh!t s going to fill a bucket with the crap and dunk his arms in while assembling his kit. Then, as a follow up to absorbing a ton of it through his skin (this is transdermally absorbed), he's going to dry his hands on a towel and eat a Big Mac and fries ... then wonder why he's blind and puking. Not everybody has that much common sense with these things (Miss America contestants regularly rinse their mouths out with bleach before contests to ensure their teeth are as white as possible). Besides that obscene example of what could happen, it doesn't take much of the stuff to make somebody quite sick.
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Tell you the truth.. I don't really give a crap if someone becomes blind/sick/dead.. it's their own stupidity to not research a chemical's MSDS before F'in with it
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Watch out Airspirit, don't treat him like a noob! Punisher knows exactly what he's doing. If he knows about MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) then I can assure you that he's not crazy enough to hurt himself.
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Thanks Ben..
Unfortunatly guys.. I am going to have to delay my phase change setup a day or 2 I believe.. I am expirence severe upper back and mostly chest muscle spasms.. they are very debilitating (sp?) .. It's hard to move.. and hard to breath with out expirence a new pain each time.. I can't sleep either.. so I just sit around in pain.. I doubt I will be able to work on my system tomorrow.. ya well :( Plus my d!ckface parents took my valium away.. the doctor gave me.. they think i am going to get addicted or some sh!t.. rediculous.. he only gave me 8 pills.. 4x a day.. jeez.. idiots.. i sit here in pain not able to sleep now.. was fine earlier.. i took 2 of them and in a bit i was going to sleep.. woke up a few hours ago and not able to sleep now because it hurts so bad.. eerrr!! Actually ben.. you are right.. I wouldn't hurt myself with anything unless it killed me.. coughheliumcough.. doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.. just another one of america's depressed youth.. who gives a rats ass |
Hang in there bubba, I know what you're going through...
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Oohh.. I didn't even sleep last night.. I spent most of the night laying on my floor because my bed hurt to much.. horrible.. horrible..
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You mean people actually bother to read MSDS sheets? At the company I work at, some any f*ck made a hand drawn copy of an MSDS sheet to tape to a bottle of WINDOW WASHING FLUID (aka Windex) because he's paranoid, when the guys in the back playing with sulfuric acid and such haven't bothered to crack the book open. I always thought MSDS was a sick joke.
But seriously, how many people pay attention to what they're doing? I agree, if a dude is dumb enough to drink battery acid or bathe in methanol (or huff R-12), he gets what is coming to him. The issue I was bringing up is that you don't bring to horse to a poisoned spring for a few laughs (however humorous it may be to watch it twitch). I try not to be an anal f*ck, but sometimes I think we go a little far in our suggestions to people. Not everyone is as experienced as you are (believe me, I don't consider you a n00b ... anyone who plays with refrigerants like you do better NOT be or you wouldn't be posting still). |
MSDS's are a gift from god.. Before I even started to F with R-134a I read to MSDS on it to make sure it wouldn't sink through my skin and eat my bones.. It's just good knowledge to read up about a chemical that you have no clue about.. and that you know from it's history can be dangerous (r-12, r-22 etc)
Refrigerants and anti-freeze by common knowledge a posoin.. I mean.. my fricken dad taught me that anti-freeze can be dangerous. So when some stupid red neck spills open a big ol' container of meth and doesn't wear gloves and spills it all over himself.. I can't help but to laugh.. ANyway.. I am pretty much over my muscle spasms.. they are to the point where it just hurts in my back.. which is good cuz the whole chest thing made it a pain to eve move my arms and breathe.. Anyway I've been working on my system today some and getting ready to charge it.. but the weirdest thing is when I wired the compressor and plugged it in.. nothing happened.. when I was putting in the refrigerant I heard a click in the compressor.. like it was going to come on.. but nothing.. so I don't know if it has something in it so it doesn't work unless refrigerant is in it.. or the thermostat or something.. need to check up on it. |
Bleh.. nevermind.. I fixed it..
Got 1 leak though! DAMN IT! Ya well.. nothing big.. take me 2 seconds to sand the pipes.. and re-sold.. run the system for like 2 days straight.. make sure no leaks in the phase change system and no water leaks in the chiller system.. and what not.. I still don't want to bring the unit up to my room just because I'm worry about water leaks.. I am thinking of possible ways around to not bringing it up to my room or something.. if a leak happens it won't squirt water.. it will just drip.... so I am thinking about putting the system in some type of large container.. so no water will get on my carpet.. I don't know.. If this unit works good I'll probably end up ripping it apart and making it into a smaller more trust worthy version.. Maybe just air cooling the condensor.. I don't know yet.. |
I've come up with a new water chiller design that would kick some serious A$$! Plus be really compact and CHEAP to make!
Unfortunatly.. I have no more cash to make it.. lol.. Depending on how the system I made now works.. I might just rip it apart and use the parts I have now to make the new one.. I just don't trust the water tightness of this one.. unfortunatly. The new one would be very trust worthy.. small.. light.. .. uh compact.. cheap to make.. and work really good.. If anyone is interested.. If the model I made now works good.. and anyone wants to take faith in me to build them a water chiller from my new design.. I'd possibly do it.. I really want to do this new design. The only difference is that the condensor isn't water cooled.. but if I use a strong enough compressor.. like a 1/3HP Danfoss .. it won't really matter.. the only reason I found it neccessary to water cool my condensor now is because it's only a 1/20HP compressor.. so it's quite the load on the little tyke.. Anywho.. I will share some of my new design with you guys later.. For now.. I must go.. heh.. I gotta get more freon to finish my system.. all looks goodie good though.. except a leak I have in the one damn PVC pipe! And I can't fix it now cuz I can't drain the water from it.. not easily anyway.. son of a!! |
Unfortunatly I couldn't get my system to work.. kept leaking..
Even when all leaks were sealed the thing wasn't getting cool.. And I checked the cap tube.. it wasn't blocked.. everything was good.. even the condensor was getting hot.. must of been a block or something some where.. I don't know.. the evaporator wasn't getting cold at all.. just don't know what was wrong.. My new system will have an access valve on the low and high side as well.. and will have only a couple solder points.. not like on my current design.. I have TONS of solder spots and shady work lol.. It's actually for the better. I am just going to scrap this crap idea and re-do this sucker.. this time a hell of a lot smaller.. like the vapochill size.. I'll still get the same results.. and everything will be a lot better.. right now I don't trust the water part of this system.. it's way to big.. way to heavy.. the new design I just came up with will be the final glory. I will have the unit done and start testing it today as well.. as long as I can find a container i am looking for. |
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