something more about algae, it seems that erythromycin phosphate (should be available in pet shops) is algae killer too.

look at
http://faq.thekrib.com/algae.html

I don't know about this erythromycin stuff... It seems like it would kill some algae, but not all.

At this point, I'm considering hooking up my aquarium filter to a res!

Weeelllll! I didn't know we had a detergent expert here! :evilaugh:

Well, that shoot down my bright idea for the day. Back tomorrow with another!:D

Bob

Actually I proposed the idea some time back, but I guess no one cared to test it.

You know, UV lights are used to sterilize ponds and such, why hasn't this ever been discussed?

Detergent expert? Not even close! However, my father worked for Fridgidaire (as a service manager for the northwest block of US states) for about ten years and he learned about more than just refrigerators.

UV lights have been discussed before, I thought. I just didn't think they were practical. Too much power, and too much danger. UV-C (the type of UV that will actually kill bacteria) is also dangerous to people.

Not that anyone's going to use it, but I still want to point out that using a fluid that heavier than water will have an impact on a pumps performance, even if you disregard differing viscosities. The reason is that a column of mercury is going to create (if memory serves) 13.55 times more pressure than a column of water the exact same height... that's why it's often used as a manometer fluid, since you don't need redicuously high tubes in order to work with higher pressures. My pump manufacturer specifically states not to pump any fluid with a specific gravity of more than 1.1 to boot.

Using mercury, which is still extremely toxic, should work well for centrifugal pumps, not any other type of pumps. Centrifugals are great, in that they don't depend on the density, where other pumps may be affected.

As for the column/gravity thing, it doesn't apply if the loop is closed.

What is Skule anyways?

(sarcasm mode)
Yeah, we could also use gamma rays to kill life forms in our PCs
(/sarcasm mode)
BB2K, the use of nuclear radiation / hard radiation / toxic waste stuff in a home device is left to your own personal experiments. Just let us know *before* so we can send the story to Darwin Awards :D

Hey, now there's an idea! How about a neutron field? Just add a particle accelerator to your PCs' cooling loop! Woot!

Seriously, the UV pond units are sealed within a tube.

You're right Ben that once you get a siphon you'll be fine, but having the pump push the mercury in the first place could be a challenge (I surely would not suck the stuff through if it wasn't beefy enough :eek: ). Still though, specific gravity is still of a concern... my pump is rated to 1.1, and I bet Eheims aren't much better (wheras mercury is 13.55).

Skule? That's a Toronto Engineering joke... along the same lines as our Lady Godiva Memorial Bnad. I guess this classic quote says it best:

Tree yeers a-go I couldn't spell engenear... now I are one. :D

trust me ben this stuff if it is at a high enough concentration will kill most all of the algae.

Puzzdre, i wouldn't trust any antibiotic to do this. penicillin won't cut it. erythromycin is by far the most potent, cheap, widely availible antibiotic for this purpose. i've run it in my loop for quite some time and nothing bad has happened that i've noticed. if you use tygon or equililent hose(in terms of not absorbing additives) you should only have to add in another capsule worth once every couple months maybe depending on the rest of your coolant solution.

Wait, I've got probably the most unknown stuff for keeping the "white-coats" away, you know that whitish-milky looking stuff that coats the your tubes? I recently added about 2 capfulls of [b]Lemon Scented Lysol [b] to 300ml of 1:8 H2o-Antifreeze and to this day, my tubes are CLEAR as can be, smells with hints of lemon in my res and there are no foamy/soap-like bubbles at all... it works great, try it!@

thanx for the info!

experience is what counts :)

Good one! I'll have to try it in distilled water only.

Wouldn't soap foam like a mutha in your res/air trap? I'm having flashbacks of the time I filled a washer with a 48 load box of detergent and ran like hell.

Lemon Lysol ... that actually sounds pretty frickin' cool. Isn't that just a derivative (with n33+ smelling stuff) of ammonia?

Oh, and erythomycin will not kill everything. It'll kill most everything, but not all of the stuff that you'll want to keep out. But, looking on the bright side, your radiator will never get a yeast infection.

Like I said, I've been running this setup for about a month or 2 constantly and my flow rate is above 350GPH and I've seen no bubbles what so ever, no "white-coats," nor any reduction in water cooling efficiency... And it smells nice too if you have a bong or something like that! :D Remember to PLEASE have ANTI-FREEZE in there, cause I don't know what would happen with out it... Probably create a more basic-solution which doesn't attack metals as violently as slight acids tend to do... Plus Anti-freeze (green stuff) has lots of inhibitors in it, so plain distilled water might have diff effects but I'm doubting it... The Lysol is pretty harmless (just an ammonia derivative) and I added a very sparing amount.

LEMONS TO YA! :p

Antiboitics probably aren't going to do much for fungus, which would probably be an issue as well in warm, damp places.

When we say antifreeze in the coolant is that synonymous with propylene glycol?

Antifreeze is a name for a bunch of different chemicals. It is primarily ethylene glycol or propylene glycol, but it includes a number of other things. Propylene glycol is a less toxic alternative to ethylene glycol.

Friends, detergents are surfactants...as is soap. They are surfactants(surface acting agents) in that they interfere with the hygrogen bonding that occurs within water which is from where suface tension comes. Using detergents in reservoirs will increase performance of heat transfer undoubtably. One does not need use even a drop(depending on which detergent), as foaming will cause less heat transfer than the benefits gained from reduced surface tension.
Personally I use purple ice (be-cooling) and if you're concerned about dyes then use high quality tygon tubing which is impervious to dye leaching.

-Sherlock

Big todo over this on another forum :)

but just add a capful or two of clorox to your water.......it will KILL the bugs........it does deactivate after a couple weeks though.....BUT it also sterilizes a closed system.......I would think you need at least one critter to start a critter colony and after using the clorox you should have a sterile environment.

Isn't there is Chlorine in bleech? That would do all sorts of nasty things to a copper waterblock, no?

I say, you DO NOT want to put ANY clorox into your system! I will significantly change the ph of the water to a caustic base side. Which is HIGHLY efficient at dissolving grease and any other lube that you've use to slip you tubes on and it will effect some plastics and the pump's impeller etc... DO NOT USE BLEACH.

Like I said earlier, try out the Lysol, it works GREAT, I've YET to see any "white-coats: in my tubes! ;)

would vinegar be any good? i wouldn't know where to even get lysol...

I still find it hard to believe soap would be for the better, I know it's a surfactant, but surfactant does'nt automaticly imply reduced surface tension does it. I'd have thought the film of soap would have increased tension.
I know WW makes water foam, but are they strong bubbles?, like soap ones are?...
I'd like to see something definative rather than an opinion.
I'm not saying it is or is'nt, I'd like to be 100% that's all :) ...

Why do people put anti freeze in if they don't have mixed metals?. it's only with mixed metals you get electro galvanic corrosion is'nt it?...

First, a surfactant reduces surface tension. That's the definition of surfactant.

Second, people put antifreeze in their systems for two reasons. Normal corrosion prevention (non-galvanic) and to reduce the freezing temperature (sometimes the alcohols interfere with their particular tubing and reservoir materials). Antifreeze does help with normal corrosion, but, to be honest the normal corrosion probably isn't severe enough to be of any effect. Be honest... how long do we actually keep our systems? I doubt that a watercooling loop actually stays untouched for more than a year! :D

Is'nt oil used as a 'surface acting agent' when it's thrown overboard to calm waves, to make boarding easier. surely a Surfactant is anything that reacts to waters surface in any way?. otherwise it'd be a Surftenredant:shrug: ...

I thought they put AF in 'Galvanic specific'(?). I would'nt put it in my all Cu system. Also I thought it was WaterWetter that left deposits on plastic if over~used?, and which also stained (silicone?, makes it go white?) tubing?...

I'm not being contrary on purpose my friend :D , it's just like I said, 'I'd like to know for sure' about soap being a good thing, I think it' could reduce tension of the water maybe, but it puts a film on top of the water as well?:shrug: .
I'm not being obstinate either, I've just seen one too many untruths touted as fact on the web before :( . so I'd like to be 100%...

Oil would float at the top of the water, so it would calm waves indeed. It's not a surfactant, in fact, it increases surface tension.

In a rig, there is no surface exposed to air, and no oil to float on top. Depending on the oil, it might attach itself to tubing walls/copper channels, and you definitely don't want that, unless you're running an oil cooler.

Liquid laundry detergent is something that I proposed some time back. It contains a surfactant, but is a bubbless soap, so pretty much ideal for watercooling. Dishwashing soap (the machine dishwasher) would work too. I would definitely stay away from the powder formats, because I don't care to try to dissolve this stuff in water, so that there is no powder residue to damage the pump. If it's already liquid, then it's not a worry (but I'd still feel it between my fingers for any kind of granularity).

Of course, true to my avatar name, I haven't tried it, so if you do, you're on your own, but we would all like to see results. :cool:

Water-coolant chemistry… some useful Facts

Surfactants are used in PC water-cooling systems to promote better heat transfer. They do two things: 1) surfactants REDUCE water surface tension, which increases waters surface wetting ability (increased contact between water molecules and heat transfer surfaces) and 2) helps release numerous, tiny air bubbles, which get trapped on heat transfer surfaces (trapped microscopic air bubbles block heat flow). Two of the more popular commercial brands are Water Wetter and Purple Ice (both developed for high performance race car cooling systems).

Adding a surfactant (in the low concentrations used in PC cooling systems) does not change the viscosity of water.

Surfactants (Surface active agents) are also known as wetting agents
Surfactants are organic chemicals that reduce the surface tension of water
(Water has a naturally high surface tension – water likes to cling to itself – beads up)
There are many different kinds of surfactants
Soaps AND detergents are both surfactants
Soap falls into one class of surfactants (anionic surfactants) made from animal fats and vegetable oils
Detergents include several different types of surfactants (anionic and nonionic surfactants) made primarily from petrochemicals

A surfactant molecule is made up of two parts. On one end is a carboxylate group (alkylated carboxylic acid) and on the other end is a long straight hydrocarbon chain. The carboxylate end is attracted to water. This is the (hydrophilic – water loving) end. The hydrocarbon chain end is repelled by water (hydrophobic – water hating) but is attracted to other molecules and surfaces. When a surfactant is added to water, it acts as a “bridge”, which allows the water to fully wet or spread out along surfaces that might otherwise repel the water molecules. (It is this same wetting ability that allows soaps and detergents to attach and suspend oil and grease for cleaning.)

Commercial soap and detergent products can be used in a coolant system (VERY small amount – 1 drop) but I do NOT recommend it as these products generally contain many other additives (emulsifiers, sudsing agents, smelly stuff, etc.) that are not beneficial for PC water-cooling applications.

pH

pH is a measure of how acidic or basic a solution is. The scale ranges from 1 to 14 (1 being extremely acidic, 7 being neutral, and 14 being extremely basic).

In a PC water-cooling system we generally want the pH to be slightly on the basic (alkaline) side to help minimize corrosion. pH values between 8 and 10 are desirable. This also helps retard the growth of biological organisms, as most bacteria, algae, and fungi prefer slightly acidic growing environments to grow in.

Here are some actual pH measurements of several coolant mixes I use:
(Beckman Model 340 pH meter)

3% Water Wetter in distilled water pH = 8.61
(4 oz. ww / quart water)

0.4% Chlorox bleach in distilled water pH = 10.21
(1 Tablespoon / quart water)

3% Water Wetter – 15% Prestone – distilled water pH = 8.75
(4 oz – 19 oz – 105 oz)

3% Water Wetter – 10% Prestone – 30% Methanol - distilled water pH = 8.38
(4 oz – 13 oz – 38 oz – 73 oz)

Note 1: Chlorox bleach (6% sodium hypochlorite in water) is very corrosive to aluminum and SS.

Note 2: Methanol is poisonous and toxic. I only use it in chill water systems operating below freezing.

Note3: It is important to periodically (6 mos – 1 yr) flush out the old and renew the chemical additives in your system. It seems like I am always tinkering with my systems, so they never get the chance to go that long without a refill.

Well there are a few facts… I hope they help answer more questions than they raise… :)

RoboTech

Gee!, I hope you cut and pasted that RoboTech!!:D ...

It was the strong film soap creates that was worrying me, I never knew about 'non sudsing' detergent :dome: ...

I know exactly what surfactant means to the PC world, it's just it's an ambiguos sounding name no?. Fox Mulder walking on water would be a surfactant would'nt he?...