A quick perusal of the thread will tell you I am not the only one skeptical of the claims.

I do not have a problem with the block. It is a good maze style block, I never said otherwise. I do not see evidence of these wire doohickeys making a positive impact. It was a good experiment but I do not see sound evidence or even theory of the beneficial claims you are trying to convince us readers of. One degree Celsius is most definately in the realm of variables. Tim joint? Mount allignment? Accuracy and resolution of probes? Control of environment?

BTW you are the one Dodge that brought my block into this thread discussion and the name's gone_fishin:D

Once the stock turbulators were removed I saw a 3c drop in temps while using my Eheim 1250 pump. The block was run as an open channel block. I then decided to add my copper coils to add turbulance within the block. The coils are small enough not to restrict the flow but to drop the temps another 1c. Over the open channel block I only saw a drop of 1c.

Now I doubt that if another smaller pump is used anyone would see a difference. I have always based this info. while using a 1250 pump with it's 28 watts.

I am not trying to convince any readers. It's up to those that have a TC -4 that they can make a change. There is not doubt that just removing the stock turbulators will improve the block while using a Eheim 1250 pump. I'm not going to loose sleep trying to convince you whether they work.

DV
I understand what you did, let me explain what, and why, I'm asking

a 3°C drop due to increased velocity alone is VERY large
the TC-4 with the turbulators is VERY good

the 1250 does not have enough head to boost the flow 'all that much' with the removal of the turbulators
and the re-insertion of different turbulators returns one effectively to about the initial flow rate

you can not get here from there

OR your initial measurements were wrong
OR your subsequent measurements are wrong
therefore I asked if you have some comparable data for the 3 tests

no, a response is NOT : well now it is 3° better . . . .
do/did you record the complete data sets such that others can compare them ?

your claims appear to be inconsistent, and extravagant
but before I suggest that you are blowing smoke, I'm asking to see the data

Hard data that you or others would welcome I do not have. What I do keep are my records that I type into WORD what my case/cpu/ambient were before I made changes to the block in MY system.

Once the ambient air temp is maintained to the same temp I take readings. Nothing has changed in my system. I still use the same heater core/fans/pump/water block and air flow through the case.

Billa, if you want to tell me I am blowing smoke go for it. I won't be the first to receive your blessing and sure won't be the last.

no one needs any test equipment to see that your 'numbers' don't - and won't - match up
- this is about logic and deductive reasoning

I think this stuff might be better suited to some of the more gullible forums

if it talks like a duck, and walks like a duck . . . .
must be [H]ard data 'test' results

testing with a computer system is rather difficult;
you spouted the numbers, up to you to justify them; I do not believe them

the disservice you have done is to Danny, got that ? -> to Danny

I don't give a rat, far be it from me to purge bogus 'tests' from the forums;
only asked 'cause you're posting this junk all over

Yep, just what I thought you would say. Damm I feel so much better now being blessed by BillA.

you might be better off by trying to figure out where the testing problem is,
than congratulating yourself on joining ecu pirate and maskedgeek
they your peers ? (swimming with the big fish now, eh ?)

you have to deal with numbers if you want to 'talk technical'
and you have to be able, and willing, to answer questions

Seems one of your own use the same method for testing his micro block. What would that be? Testing with his computer. WOW....

A quote from Cathar:

I bet 99 percent of users use their computer to post results. Other than my on-die CPU temps all other temps are collected from my Fluke temp probe, but that would not be good enough for you, would it Mr. BillA?

But Cathars results are backed up by the theory.

He has also been able to achieve a better max overclock, and hes now got a board that reads the onchip diode. He states a reduction in temp from them.

You can say his testing is comparable to yours but as Bill is trying to point out, where are the reasons for your claimed gains? Why would removing turbulators gain a large amount, and then putting others back in drop more.

If you still have the originals could you please test them and see what results you get?

:D ...

Hmmm, the last time I read the EPOX 8K3A+ reads from the ONCHIP DIODE. Wow thats the board I have.....

To remove the restriction the stock turbulators had on the Eheim pump. Replacing the stock turbulators with the copper coils added turbulance without the restriction.

I could care a less if any of you believe what I have posted. Another forum member (nikhsub1) got nearly the same results, using the same W/B, with nearly the same setup, excluding tubing size. CLICK

So I and nikhsub1 are trying to deceive the members correct?



I do beleive Danny has tested the copper coils and are shipping his blocks with the copper coils installed. Considering I shipped Danny enough coils to build 60 blocks. Did not even charge a dime for the coils, even shipped the coils at my expense.....

You shipped him enough for sixty before he even tested them? Look, it happens all the time. Your want for it to be something as you were testing may have made you a bit overanxious. Retest and post your data sets. Ambient air at rad intake, water inlet temps, and cpu load temps (case temps mean nothing). Do so at least three times with three different mountings for each setup, stock with turbulators, no turbs, and your new turbs. That would be a minimum of nine data sets to show people your conclusions. Then perhaps if there is doubt it can be directed at and resolved through your test results in a more civil manner.:D

BTW your sig shows a 12.8C water delta with a 99watt heatload, very hard to swallow also. Check you water probe placement and use burnK7, also use voltage shown when at full cpu load. 1.95v, as shown in your upper post, is a 94watt heatload and 2.0v is a 98.9watt heatload as shown by computernerd (even lower at benchtest). You must abandon the tendency to fudge:D

Did I say you didn't? I stated that because of your uote about he was going to buy a board that reads the Onchip Diode.
The better cooling is also proved somewhat in the increase in max overclock.

Also if you don't care, then why post this stuff at all? Sounds like someone can't accept that people think his improvements arnt as good as he says :cry:

pippin88, I posted to help those that have the TC. What anyone else says or does means nothing to me.

GF, I have not updated my SIG nor am I going to take my system down to prove a point with you or anyone else.

GF, Danny had the coils in his hands long before I shipped the sixty sets. Would you like to point out where I mentioned otherwise?

Holy crap!

I think its 3-5, hell maybe 10 degrees cooler now! It must have broken up the surface tension of my finger. But then again, I have no accurate measurement of temps to back up my claim.

http://www.magicalbox.com/~casey/Finger.JPG

Pinky up!

Why ask when "What anyone else says or does means nothing to me."

It's up to you to do with your point as you wish, you started the thread.

Thanks for clearing that up as you were unclear of the timing when you mentioned it.

quote "I do beleive Danny has tested the copper coils and are shipping his blocks with the copper coils installed. Considering I shipped Danny enough coils to build 60 blocks. Did not even charge a dime for the coils, even shipped the coils at my expense" end quote

His claims then coincide with yours? Example: coils installed = better performance than no coils installed?

If you have not taken the time to visit D-Teks website, here is a copy and paste information from D-teks aluminum top TC 4.

This is the new TC-4 Revision 2 equipped with a hard anodized aluminum top and O-ring sealed to provide the option of removal for cleaning. Utilizing additional Ribs in the channels with Copper Turbulator coils to greatly increase water to copper surface area, water velocity and turbulance which makes the pumps flow more efficient. The block is made by very tight tolerances with high attention to fit, finish and a perfect O-ring design seal.

So now they make "the pumps flow more efficient" not the block more efficient?:confused: An interesting choice of words.

Is a full moon out where you all live, because I swear, ya'll are acting crazy!

We have preliminary results from DodgeViper, and from Nikhsub1. They point to better performance.

Now let's see more test results, and a full review, then we can judge the performance, OK?

In any case, what ya'll are likely to see is a comparison of the revised TC-4 with a Maze 3.

I would be far more concerned with how Dtek came to conclude that turbulators would have a significant impact. Personally, I'd still like to give my idea a shot, and I do predict yet even better results, but I don't have the time, nor the inclination (oh great, now I'm grumpy. It must be contagious!)

fair enough... I was just trying to be funny :cry:

Do you think an entire forum can experience that time of the month simultaneously? I've heard this sort of thing happening with ladies who live together for a while - they will start cyling together...:evilaugh:

Bob

Oh man, don't get me started about "that cycle"... I barely survived last week!

I ended up settling on the Asus A7V333 as the mobo to read on-die temps.

I tried out a few of the 8K3A+'s, and the reported on-die temperature swung by vast margins constantly for every CPU on both of the 8K3A+ boards.

I have no idea how anyone with an 8K3A+ motherboard could ever hope to give themselves a fair indication of just what their actual on-die temperature is telling them.

As far as I'm concerned, the 8K3A+ on-die measurement facility is worse than using an in-socket thermistor.

I guess I should have expected as much coming from Epox...

so the A7V333 has full function on-die temp

Yes, with 1.011 BIOS and onwards. When it was released and for a few months afterwards it didn't support it, but that was only a BIOS issue.

I hate this A7V333 though as an overclocker's board. I really bought it just so I could develop my block but it's not something I'd willingly buy again.

No sir, back to Abit for me real soon now with a shiny AT7-MAX2 that supports the on-die diode. Pity it wasn't available 2 months ago. I'd have bought that instead.

I get cnsistent readings with my 8K3a. Maybe it was an early bios issue?

You had to have had a bad mobo. There was problems with the first boards, REV 1.0 and REV 1.1. Many boards were returned for many reasons. Personally I have yet and doubt I will see the claim you have mentioned above. This is the first post I have read that someone had a problem with temp reporting from the 8K3A+ mobo.