You guys don't seem familiar with the DangerDen Maze 2.2. I should have been a little more clear. The nylon bolts hold the coldplate to the CPU. There are steel bolts holding the coldplate and block together with the pelts between them.

Yeah here is a link to my pump, check it out:

http://www.pumpworld.net/prod8.htm#3B-500

500gph @ 1 foot, 300gph @5 feet. Quieter than my MagDrive.

Just a quick question. You ever used a 172w pelt? Cause I have...and I speaking from my experience.

Oops, my bad. It's been a while since I looked at a 2.2 .

Nice pump. It has an odd curve, where it's most efficient at the limits of its range. This tells me that it's designed for a fountain. Yup, it is. You'll do well with that pump.

The curve looks odd because they're not using a linear scale on their x-axis... 0 - 300 - 360 - 500 at even spacing? If you plot the individual points that can be read from that graph in Excel it looks much more like a "normal" pump curve... a little flat actually, but not too bad.

Yeah, I just now hooked a 172 Watt pelt up to an AA cell and cooled my thumb off. I've got experience too.

You're still totally wrong about the current leveling off at a certain voltage, and that voltage being the optimum operating point for the pelt. (Are you aware, that a lot of variable output supplies have current limiting circuitry, and they will actually stop increasing the voltage when the current limit is hit, regardless of how much higher you crank the voltage output knob?)

How about demonstrating some understanding of how a pelt operates and proving that you're right, rather than giving such a lame response? If my understanding of pelts is lacking and you can explain why, I'd be glad to know it, and humbly apologize for being such an arrogant asshole.

Until then, I'm going to consider you a fool giving bad advice. When messing around with pelts, foolishness has significant risks.

I think your misunderstanding him. I think what he means is, that a pelt operates most efficiently at a certian voltage. The lower the voltage, the more efficiently it transfers heat. Some people have found that 18-20V is optimal. If you up the voltage above that, you get no decrease in temps. Read DrRom's article on www.overclockers.com

And I think Mr. Baz has misunderstood DrRom's findings, and believes that because the temps don't change as you add voltage above 18-20V, the amperage does. However, I don't know where clamping pressure affecting current draw came from.

Oops! Should say:

and believes that because the temps don't change as you add voltage above 18-20V, neitehr does the amperage.

To quote DrRom, "I'm running the 172w with 18v from a switchmode PSU - higher voltages offered no cooling improvements for me at all."

He didn't say that he found 18V to be the optimal voltage to run at. He only said that running at higher voltages was useless or worse.

The simulations I've done, show 16V to 17V to be the optimal place to operate with "good" watercooling. "Extremely good" watercooling might get the optimal operating voltage up to 20V.

Got my new pump installed. Sure is nice! Temps dropped a bit, the block is cooler, but CPU temps are still too high. ROughly the same as they were.

Would a shroud make a HUGE difference? Am I going to need a new rad/heatercore? What would you suggest as highest performance available?

Your water/CPU temps shouldn't have changed dramatically, from a new pump: you still have a cooling problem.

A shroud won'y make a significant difference.

Maybe you could tell us which model fan you're using?

BTW, if you've read Bill Adam's radiator roundup article, you should have noticed the airflow graphs: if you can get a fan to create a pressure drop equivalent to 1/4 inch water, you should have plenty of cooling power.

I suspect you're using an L1A panaflo fan, which really can't get you the airflow you need.

Well, there is an article on www.overclockers.com under watercooling, where the author makes a nice shroud and gets a 40% INCREASE in cooling performance from his heatercore.

I have a YS Tech 120MM FD1212387B-2R roughly 135CFM I think?

I stand corrected!

Link to shrouding article

If this fella can drop his CPU temp from 51.8 to 44, You might as well give it a shot.

If you want a quick idea of how beneficial it can be, try ducting with tape first.

As for the fan, it will deadhead at .25 inch pressure drop. In other words, the actual flow you are getting is probably closer to 75 cfm (max 125) with a pressure drop closer to 1/16 inch.

Specs here

You might consider a more powefull fan, or multiple fans.

I don't have room for multiple fans. What would you suggest for a more powerful, yet not DELTA sounding 120MM fan?

You can go through this chart and pick a unit that has a low noise to flow rate ration, while maintaining a good cfm (with either a voltmod, or a rheobus, or whatever controlling device you prefer).

[edit]
It looks like the Sunon KD1212PMB1-6A is a winner in the 120mm size.

Which rad/heatercore can cool 2x 172w pelts? BIX can't......

How much room do you have?:D

well I have a 120mm hole in the top of my tower which I cut for my BIX. So I can only use a single 120MM fan, but the rad can be bigger than that.

My tower is Antec SX1200

I'd try
Check them out at heatercore4u.com (but buy it locally: it'll be cheaper).

They're the smallest cores that are 2 5/8 inch thick.

What makes you think it would be ANY better than my 100% copper (YES the WHOLE RAD is COPPER, NO OTHER TYPE OF METAL) 2 pass high flow BIX?

I just checked out the Swiftech kits and noticed they include TWO fans with all kits. One blowing air through the rad and one sucking out the otehr side. Would that help at all??

First off, a heatercore will be better because it will give you more surface area for the coolant to, well, cool! Ask anyone here, a BIX is a poor choice for two pelts.

Now don't get me wrong: it'll still work, but you loose a lot of efficiency by not having a better core.

IF you don't think it's worth it, then by all means, go with the BIX.

Seeing that you appear to be limited to a relatively small opening, I listed the thickest commonly available heatercores available.

2 fans appear to help, in some cases. It depends a lot on what you're trying to get air through: a 2 1/2 inch thick core is probably fairly restrictive, so 2 fans would be most helpful. An oil cooler type rad, with widely spaced fins, probably not.

How helpful? Check out the radiator roundup article to see (link provided on first page of this thread).

Either way, you won't loose by trying the cheapest suggestion first.

Thanks for the input. I'm in Ottawa Ontario, don't suppose you would know of a good place to find a rad?

Is there an easy way to search www.heatercores4u.com ?

Thanks again

Any idea if the DangerDen heatercore is any good?

I used to live in Canada, and I've been to Ottawa a few times.

If you have a Canadian Tire nearby, that'd be the first place I'd check.

I'm looking at those fan specs again:
You have a YS tech, and I suggested a Sunon.

YSTech:
RPM: 2'800
Noise: 45 dB
max CFM: 125
max pressure: 7.6mm (H2O)

Sunon:
RPM: 2400
Noise: 35.5 dB
max CFM: 69
max pressure: 0.17 inches H2O (4.23 mm)

So although it would be quieter, it would probably perform worse.
Sunon spec (Oops, sorry, I don't do other people's homework! ;) )

What temp difference do you see, from running the fan at 7 volts, versus 12v?

I think you should try a bigger/better fan first (maybe you've got something around the house you can try?). Did you get around to putting a shroud around the BIX?

If you could try a REALLY powerfull fan, you'd see for yourself what we mean about the BIX. Alternatively, your YS tech fan can be overvolted to 16 Volts (see specs).


BTW, I have the same case (Chieftec Dragon DA-01). I'll be putting my rad where the PSU goes, so I'll have a 6 by 8 opening, for (possibly) an old 68' vette core. I plan to use a blower as a fan, pulling air from the side, and blowing out the back. Once one starts using auto parts...

That's fine. You can probably save yourself shipping, and pick it up locally.

I used an old 120mm fan that was roughly 1 1/2 inches thich, cut the fan out, and used it as a shroud! NO difference. My BIX is garbage :(

I have a 120mm AC fan that is a MONSTER that I will try. How is that Sunon better than my YS Tech??? I run my fan at 12v not 7v.

Going out for a bit, shopping with the girlfriend (might take a week)

Have fun!

The Sunon is WORSE, that was my point. Quieter, but worse.

With a more effective heatercore, you should be able to bring your water temp to a reasonable level, without using loud fans.

Maybe you can answer this when you get back: what's left for ventilation, for the rest of the case?

I have an Antec 1240/Cheiftec Dragon and I fit a daul 120mm core on the top. it cost me 2 CDROM bays, but I still got 4 more, so I don't mind :)

Anyway I got the core for $29 from Autozone. Not sure if they have them in Canada, but its just a Ford Econoline Heatercore, so it shouldn't be too hard to find.

Which one ?

Well I think I'm going to go with the Danger Den heatercore. It's like less than HALF the price I paid for my friggin BIX. Who would have though :P I'm going to check out some reviews first. Have a few questions though:

Any ideas on mounting a fan on the heatercore, it has no fan mounting holes. Or would I be best to make a shroud?

Do you know of a similar rad that HAS mounting holes? Or a similar heatercore that comes with a shroud?

Last, will this rad with my YS Tech fan cool dual 172W pelts, on an XP2400+ @2.6Ghz 2.2v?

Oh I guess one last thing while I'm at it. I have a Danger Den Maze slot 1 block with coldplate and same mounting system, 80w pelt, to go on my 9700Pro. With my old pump. Think my BIX would cool THAT well enough? :(