Yes I must get a spell-checker to uze with my thesores. I happened to be looking up something and came across this. But I guess I got owned once again by not checking the dates. I really need a life. This hiding behind an avatar, and defining my world through a PC is demeaning to say the least. Prior to my accident I wouldn't waste time arguing with the likes of people who got beat down in High School, kept their virginity through College, only to become a cyber-bully. Funny how the abused becomes the abuser.

I guess that's why so many derive pleasure in causing, or witnessing the misfortune of others. Finding gratification in the pain of others, minimizes your own. You probably laugh at the body-count from Iraq every day as well. The integrity your lacking defines those whom would fight for your right to berate, and those who take the college deferment. If there were no ProCooling forums, where would you displace all that rage? You can only watch Cops, or (for the educated) listen to Rush a few hours a day. On the net you can say almost anything you want without ramifications, hiding behind an identity you create, and miles of cable. Until someone says somethjing about you. Then it's off to the Law Offices of "Insecure, Mean-spirited, and I grew Up to be a Nasty Little Engineer" we go. Where are those papers anyway? I'm waiting?

I'll take getting owned standing up to the cruel, over joining that club everytime. Now spend 20-minutes writing your responses, it's the most social action you'll see in a lifetime.

Koko out....

Your paranoid worldview is very limiting. I pity you, Liquid3D.

wow man... Thanks for opening my eyes to the fact's that have been escape'n me for some time!

I am truly a changed man after that post... (Mainly because I laughed so hard I think I hurt something)

Also what makes you think anyone who has an education would listen to Rush... Rush is for the weak minds. The weak are the ones who prefer to not question or analyze results only use big words to cover up their lack of knowledge and understanding... sounds familiar? Rage, Yeh I got that, I rage on those who try to fake what they are. Don’t be pissy at us just because this is a place where FACTS are relevant not your mis worded hype.

honestly I am amazed you came here to post... you know no one likes you, likes your articles, trusts anything you post, and all because cathar wont send you a block... what a ****ing cry baby. Talk about someone needing to grow up and see the real world.

Oh, what it must be like to construct such generalised fantasies of personalities in order to bypass reality...

I couldn't pick a single point in that construction that even remotely applied to me, but if it makes you feel better to imagine people in that fashion in order to cope with how they react to your behavior, then do it, I guess. It is rather sad though. Seriously though - go see a counseller - you are suffering from chronic depression.

Why, the ]H[ard forums, of course

such is the beuty of anonomouse comunication.

There is nothing cruel or mean spirited in pointing out mistakes in someones test procedures. Thats how test procedures get evaluated and ultimately improved. Are you suggesting that it would be better to just say "good job, thats good enough. at least you tried"

Speaking of law offices... hows that lawsuit against ProCooling and pH going Liquid3d??

If you use Internet Explore based browser try http://www.iespell.com/

Didn't we just have a thread dedicated to your false assumptions and generalizations? Have you read THIS or did jmke keep it from you, can't remember you replying there?
Do you really think we are picking on you because your disabled? It has nothing to do with that dude.
Ummmmm, if anyone is an example of the above it is YOU!!!!!
Try 1 minute and 36 seconds. :)

Your first paragraph reminds me of something that would be sent to Maddox as hatemail... That's incredibly pitiful that you look down on the people that got beaten on for being smart...

I don't think that was his point. He thinks that for being critical and honest, we're cruel to people who are unwilling to do a good job, when we will, in a second, help anyone who asks for it with their testing...

Ok, it was that Iraq thing that threw me off I guess. Still not sure what the body count in Iraq has anything to do with a badly done review or someone that makes completely false accusations.

Yeah, but that involves the reviewer coming here, posting the review and basically state: "I'm not sure, but I think that this part might be off".

Most reviews are caught by other people, picked apart, *then* the reviewer gets wind of it, maybe, and is automatically on the defensive, most of the time. I guess that's just the nature of reviewers (too young?!?). I personally welcome any comments, and view them as constructive criticism, regardless of how it's phrased: it's all there, if one looks closely enough.

Age has nothing to do with it. [/bitter]

The thing is that they've wasted a lot of time on something crappy, and some people at stupid forums have congratulated them on it.

You've been getting bashed almost as hard as Liquid3D for years and you seem to be ok with it...

It's true we are often a bunch of assholes

this is a pretty amazing post, I think it may be free association of random words
- seriously good drugs shaping his world view

thinking I may want to avoid that one, . . . . .

actually, the 'review process' can play out in several manners:
- an individual buys a product, and writes a review
- an individual requests a product for a review
- a product is offered (by the mfgr or a distributor) to a reviewer

- and of course, a mfgr might even provide their own performance data

for the first three there are also several possibilities:
- a review is posted w/o any prior or post notification to the mfgr
- a review is posted with simultaneous notice to the mfgr
- a review is made available to the mfgr prior to posting - for comment (NOT correction)

Swiftech prefers the latter option as a means of addressing technical 'glitches', but such rarely occurs as reviewers are not interested in a wrangle over the inadequacies of their test equipment and procedures.

such is "free" advertising

and of course the above presumes that the mfgr has a better understanding than the reviewer - not always true at all
(JoeC and pH both already know a great deal, and will know yet more as their testing progresses - knowledge is power, I can speak to this)

Liquid3D you astound and amuse me to no end.

"and of course the above presumes that the mfgr has a better understanding than the reviewer - not always true at all
(JoeC and pH both already know a great deal, and will know yet more as their testing progresses - knowledge is power, I can speak to this)"

This brings up the point of true independent reviews; should I comment on how wbs might be improved (assuming I have an idea)? Is objectivity compromised by the act of making suggestions to a mfgr? Thorny issues quite separate from the "typical" review = free advertising or review = free stuff for kids equations.

Still struggling with this myself. I currently don't like to do testing for wb development (you have 50+ wbs if I did right Bill? lol) but will test production quality prototypes prior to release as long as that can be posted as a review on release day.

I really should talk to you soon about commercial testing Bill because I am getting some requests and don't want to get unfairly used by mfgrs.

I would say no to the commercial blocks and yes the the DIY'ers.

yea but you WOULD say that :P

What happens when the DIY guy buys a $30,000 CNC and starts selling wbs?

Yeah I don't think you should offer any opinions. That way they can't come back to haunt you. Just post the facts and any difficulties you've had. One (as Liquid3D proved) can not dispute hard facts, but any opinion or advice can be argued strongly.

no, opinions are fine (its a review, eh ?)
just clearly state their basis

Hehe, that will not be happing for me. I decided I didn't want the liability. The market just isn't there to support it anyway on any of the projects I was pondering, not just water blocks. I am staying with the DIY theme. :D

If I reviewed a water block, I wouldn't advance any ideas for improvement: I'd just stick to reviewing the block. Otherwise, I'd be more than happy to charge a consultant fee for my opinions. :D

This is the only kind of review that is really expensive to do, to my knowledge, because of all the work and equipment involved. When I build a testbench, you can bet I'm going to put it to good use.

The only issue I'm debating for myself, is what kind of position am I putting myself in, if I start making and selling a water block, while I review others? Obviously all the blocks are publicly available, so it shouldn't be a big deal, right? Bill reviewed blocks, and had testing services on the side, so I'd be doing something similar, no? :shrug:

Conflict of intrest. If your block just happen to perform better than any other block on the planet you will get called biased and get blamed for no objectivity. Not a position you want to be in IMO.

Once you establish yourself as a maker of water-blocks, you then cannot expect the public to hold your results, especially if they show your products beating currently shipping competing products, with anything less than derision.

It's not the intent, integrity, or the honesty of the tester being called into question, it's the simple nature of a direct conflict of interest. The onus is on the tester then to establish a lack of bias through independent unbiased review, which immediately renders the manufacturer's own competitor analysis totally toothless.

Okay for a manufacturer to rank their own products against each other though.

If you want a classic example, look no further than Apple's recent "World Fastest PC" claim, and boy has their lack of independence been slapped around for that one.

Hum... yeah, thanks. Keyword here: "Once you establish yourself as a maker of water-blocks", at least I'm not there either. :(

Testing is going to be my first project, but not by choice. I can't make this block until I have the testbench... So I'd be established as a tester, before a block maker. I suspect I'd have to quit testing (aka reviewing), if I went into block making, full time. That seems reasonable, no?

Wouldn't a solution be to not post the results of your own block? (That assumes, of course, that you're testing for fun (or, I guess, for comparitive results) rather than to show that your block is good)

Not really. Who's to say he isn't making the other blocks look bad. Also who wants the competition to be testing your blocks. Could be legal problems if his design resembles the others (reverse enginering).