Good thinking.

These are all things that the machinists and I discussed when I picked up this block. The machinists are already working on it. They've finished the middle plate, and are doing the bottom plate hole bottoms with a ball-nose bit.

As your blocks AS3 has had some time to burn in now, how are the temps looking?

I scrapped that entire testing procedure and started again as I decided it was too prone to non-repeatability errors. Waiting for some indeterminate period of time for the AS3 to settle/cure was giving me the proverbial .....

I retested using regular white goop, which yields about the same initial temperatures as AS3, but AS3 does gain over time as it cures.

Retesting and remounting the White Water and the Cascade 8 times so far in alternation to greatly reduce the chance of any single or even a short run of mounting errors from skewing results, I've come to the following results.

The Cascade use experimental base #1 is better than experimental base #2 and #3 by around 0.5C and 1.0C respectively. This is extremely promising as there's a pattern to the order of the bases and it gives me an idea of what is the right direction to be heading.

Compared to the White Water, Cascade base #1 is marginally (and I do mean marginal) better than the White Water. We're talking statistically inseparable given the limitations of my test setup, but if I had to pick one, I'd say the Cascade was ever so slightly ahead.

Using these results this gives me great insight on how I should move forwards to further refine the design.

There's still quite a number of things to do to tweak it to the max. The jet plate I'm presently using has some issues due to the material use and how it reacted after machining. The machinists have made a new jet plate out of a better machining-friendly polycarb, and this will help to fix some of the irregularities in the plate I'm presently using too.

Of course, it could be that there's very little left to gain. Only time and further refining will tell.

Do you have pictures you can post of each base?

I want to know what the differences are :D

Different sized holes.

Cathar, how much infomation can you give away?

Bp thickness?

Hole size and depth?

You're replying to someone really intrested and amazed at your work...

I'm still discovering what is the best balance for each of those things.

Sorry for being vague, but it is on purpose, and for good reasons if you knew my history.

On another aspect of the matter.

Do I reveal all? To what benefit to others since it specifically applies the spacings and sizings of the jets I use? Enough information for you to make a copy? If you make a copy, then what have you learned? If you make a copy, then this precludes the chance that you might have happened across some better combination/way of arranging things.

By revealing the specifics of the current design, am I really helping or hindering independent research?

This is how I choose to view the divulging of information. You can all see the basic design. You're all familiar with how it works. You can all take a guess at the dimensions I'm using, and perhaps just a guess may turn out better than actually knowing.

Ah right... true.

Thanks anyways, Cathar! :D

I'm just scared that a 4mm baseplate would no be sufficient, as that is all I have...

I think 4mm Baseplate will be to much. You have to make the BP thick enough to spread the heat to all the holes. this will be the optimum. Its not that bad if you make it a bit thicker or thinner but 4mm wil be too much.

Edit: I thought you meant the remaining material under the wholes. If you mean a 4mm Plate in which you will drill the holes it 'll work fine

If you mean that the total thickness of your copper plate (without drilling any holes) is 4mm, then that seems to me to be an acceptable place to start from. I couldn't recommend using a base-plate whose total thickness is less than 3mm (or 1/8").

Glad to see you are enjoying some positive progress Cathar. And even a modest gain over the WW design I'd say is quite good as you still have other tweaks to try.

Since there isn't a large amount of copper being used, could this design be feasible in silver? I'd guess you're using a 4/5mm piece of copper. You could then make the block smaller to reduce costs.

What About a single inlet, single outlet design, I'd bet it wouldn't hurt performance if you give it enough thought.

Yeah, that's on the way. Right now it's just easier to copy over bits and pieces of old programs and only change what's necessary. Just prototyping.

Strange how there seems to be at least a limited market for silver blocks in Europe, but no where else. I've even seen NB & Gfx blocks done in silver on a German site.

My view on silver is that it is fairly expensive. If I were to make a block out of silver, I would want to be very certain that the block design was close "as good as it gets" before resorting to using silver.

Using silver instead of copper may buy you around 0.5C, and you'd want to be certain that before shelling out $50 US for the silver alone that there really isn't a better design to use it on.

But you could make the block really small so that it wouldn't be expensive.

Silver costs around $4.80 per ounce (28g).

I suppose you could get away with about 2oz per block, or around $15 US/block after counting the middle man and getting a largish batch of it melted down and cut up to size. Compare that to copper where you're looking at around $1.50 for a full block base like I'm using here, and we are talking about a significant amount of extra expense, even if we were using as little of it as possible.

I thought silver was cheaper than what you suggested :(

Cathar, can you give me a rough idea of the depth of the cups I should be trying to get on a 4mm bp?

WTF? If it was cheaper we all would be using it!

and the clones come out...:(

Cheaper than what cathar suggested I mean

Awww, my bad. Read it wrong...

Awwww...shut up!

Let's not go through the clone BS as we all did with the WW....if Cathar was in the least bit concerned about that, he wouldnt even have posted as much as he has already. The cascade is as much of a learning process as anything , for ALL of us....including Cathar.
Besides if someone did decide to clone it, they would have to have pretty accurate CNC equipment to do so....which not EVERYONE has:p

Well I don't know about that. The poly piece is pretty much all strait cuts except for the O ring groove and the outer channel. A hand mill should be able to do it with someone that knows how to use it. But I doubt a dermal would work. Maybe if you used the router attachment and precisely positioned a jig on each cut. Would be a bitch without a mill though.

I could make that block on my little CNC mill. It loves plastics. :) I got a few new ideas of variations of this block I am going to try in the future. Got some other things in the works now though....