Ah I didn't realize you were also a moderator at that forum jmke.

oh my, now there are 2 people in the hole
jmke
now that you have been made aware of the (allegedly) libelous statements on a forum on which you are a mod, what do you intend to do ?

note that no action will make YOU a party

*gone* *

this will be a lose-lose situation for me but if forced to do so I will publicly defend myself using an editorial at Procooling as my sounding board. I see you doing a lot of backpedaling away from l3d's comments jmke but I don't know how you'll distance yourself from the fact that someone making false statements is a regular reviewer for your site. I don't do damage control myself; I escalate things as much as possible.

*gone* *

Perhaps backpedal is the wrong word; you are in my opinion wise to distance yourself from Liquid3D's statements. Would you agree then that his statements are libelous? Does that affect your confidence in his test results?

I do not have to save face as I am in the right. If liquid3d were smart he would delete all accusations not based upon fact before I air this out publicly.

*gone* *

I dont care a tinker's damn about any comments that were made about my testing methods. I am up in arms about personal attacks on my credibility. The fact that lies were made up to discredit my test results pisses me off.

LOL. Can't take the heat, get out of the fire. :evilaugh:

P.S. I don't represent ProCooling in anyway so I don't care if you don't listen. :dome:

How about this part, from the apology:
Jaydee designed/built the Cascade for Cathar? News to me :/

Well...

Deductive reasoning is obviously not liquid3d's strong suit. Look at the conclusions he leapt to about me

WTF? Interesting. I live in the USA, Cathar lives in Australia. Also I don't remember "insulting" him, but whatever.

I think this type of reasoning is where this whole situation started. Instead of just ASSUMING something you should at least do a little digging to find some evidence. I don't think it would take to long searching threads here at ProCooling to find I and Cathar do not have any type of official association at this point. We have worked off each others idea's but I had very very little to do with the Cascade design and nothing to do with the White Water. I don't even have the equipment to make a Cascade at this point if I wanted to. :D

About a month ago I did PM Cathar and asked if he would be interested in a USA manufacturer and distributor in the USA because I was pondering buying a $30,000 CNC mill from Hass and getting in to the manufactuing and prototyping business for out of country people like Cathar and for forum members at ProCooling that needed a block made cheaper than a normal machinest would charge and other things. I also discussed some things with D-TEK about doing some of their prototyping.

Anyway assumption on small things I can understand, most of us do it. But making these allegations is a pretty serious thing that should be backed up by imperial evidence.

Let's say you are an owner of a business and need an employee to do a spacific job that takes spacific skills and knowledge. Would you hire anyone that was up to working for you or would you screen the people for who could do the job right the first time?


Or if you were to subcontract a job out to another company/person. Would you hire a guy off the street who can show no skills or knowledge of the job that you need done? Or would you search for a company/person that can prove they/it is capable of doing the job right.

Either way these people are representing your business by the work they do for you. Because in the end your name is put on the work that was done even though someone else did it. Your reputation is on the line.

I deal with this everyday at my real job. The company I work for is a sub-contractor and a contractor. The only reason we do ALL of the Costco Wholesale gas station canopies in the USA is because our work is quality and in the end our work represents Costco. Costco dosn't want some halfassed company making a half assed product that represents their company. It makes them look bad.

Now put that perspective in your tech site. Do you want someone writing a review on something they obviously have no knowledge of nore have any idea how to do properly?

The problem with these tech sites is the editors know less about the subject than the reviewers do. How are they supposed to edit something that they know nothing about?

Hey the evidence speaks for itself before anyone wants to complain about this post. :dome:

JMKE - you should be concerned about the outright false statements in Liquid3d's review, i think.
As of yet, i dont see that you are.
I also think you should be concerned with his meandering assumptions that are wrong (in his review).

I think the review/preview/article has been substantially modified (or maybe I'm feeling smarter today).
When I first looked at it (following the link from the first posing in this thread) I found it to be almost completely unintelligible. There were sentences that, if you tried to use the meaning of all the words, just didn't "parse".
I went back to it this AM - and it's actually readable.
I didn't save a copy for comparison, was very tired when I first looked at it, am not particularly tired now, so it might just be me - but it looks lots better. Go look - tell me if I'm crazy (crazier)...

The article has been substantially altered. There is now a note at the end of the article which states that it has been edited heavily since its first revision.

it still doesnt change the bullshit he stated about pH...

"Removing the accelerator-nozzle exposes what is perhaps the most critical area of any water-block. The impingement zone."

Parse error: parse error, unexpected '.' in 'http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=2&artpage=736&articID=18 8' on line 1

#49 Balefire X - yeah exactly, the reason i drew attention to the review was that it was outright hilarious to me, and wanted to share it with the procooling hangouts....

That this has certainly taken a turn during the last day or so - not intended though. :shrug:

For obvious reasons i stand behind Procooling and and thereby pHaestus in this little dispute :dome:

I'm not worried about incomplete sentences, or, more accurately, periods used for pauses where a dash, colon, or semicolon might have been more appropriate.
I meant "parse" in the sense of "couldn't grasp the meaning" - now I can. I don't necessarily agree with a lot of usage (including "impingement zone") but it's now at the level of computer-marketing-person-speak, which I have had many years experience dealing with :)

Ok, I've decided to actually read the article. It's a lot better than some of his older articles in some places, but "Another insightful engineering aspect of the block, is its effective use of gravity. The block, once properly mounted, has the outlet at its base" and This paragraph here is just terrible.

"I test each system without the aid of zip-ties, or clamps to ensure everything is leak-proof under the worst conditions." You know you're smart when...

He used AS5, not a great testing paste. To nothing! You've compared high end watercooling with low end aircooling, and you got a predictable result... He used SETI to get a load temperature reading...

Congrats?

About as imaginative as using fins...

Well, he's improved in that he is now using a +/- 1C temperature sensor, but he doesn't compare to anything beyond stock cooling, and he makes the comment that it is better than many blocks on the market today, but he offers no proof whatsoever... I was able to comprehend it, but, in my opinion, that review was QUITE useless.

How'd he get so popular?

why is that?

Because it takes a long time to burn in. I guess it doesn't matter since he only mounted once :rolleyes:

I actually thought it was fairly strange that he used his 'hard life' as an excuse for his review... honestly, if your mechanic managed to do a particularly bad job on fixing your brakes, and you had an accident because of it, would you sympathise because he had a hard night with the missus and had to sleep on the couch?

Extreme, I know; however, I think that the point I'm trying to make is there. I agree with JD - if you can't do it, learn how to until you can.

So is jmke gonna pay you guys for technical editing now? I find it kinda ironic that liquid3d would attack me and my methods on another forum and then they rush to incorporate the suggestions. Especially with this Feb 17, 2004 post from our Pro/Geeks forum:

link appears dead now.

I believe the message to take from this mess is that it is important to keep original log files from your testing so that if your objectivity is questioned you can retort with impunity. The secondary message that will hopefully come forth is that it's very bad to make up things about people's honesty without facts.

These messages (along with all the necessary data to defend myself) will be included in my testing methods and objectives article within the week. This will mean that lots of people will know about this saga and see my side of this story for a very long time. As mfgrs will be particularly interested in how we test here, I'd expect the fact that liquid3d makes up lies to support his opinions will be of continued interest to them. And the fact that liquid3d writes for madshrimps.be and moderates the truextreme forums is of course public knowledge.

The libelous statements really should have been retracted yesterday as I requested. I cannot let my credibility be called into question and I will now be forced to defend it vigorously.