What is the ID of the tubing inside of the thermochill 120.3? I ask this because I have 2 Evo 360 (from "Aquacomputer") and I´ve seen that in my radiators that the ID of the tubig is not very big...

Thanks,
friku
;)

Hey guys, I was just wondering if there is a simple, cheap circuit I could build to convert the 12 volts from my PS up to the 14 or so that the MCP600 can take. If it can take up to 14.5, then heck, why not do it? If I could build a converter then I wouldn't need an extra wire into my box. How 'bout it? Anybody got experience building this kind of circuit?

Sure, a simple transfo could do that for you, but i'm not sure is 12V -> 14V is a commonly used kind of transfo. And then again: Dual coil transfo's add alot of heat to your system and are quite inefficient.

Transfos convert AC, not DC.

Some step up circuit can do it, but it'd be custom at this point: cheaper to find another PSU, like a variable PSU from eBay.

This thing would be perfect.

Costs ~$25 Australian, or around $19 US.

15v PSU. Has trimmer pot to go from 13.5v -> 16.5v.

http://www.computronics.com.au/meanwell/s-25/

Specifically the S-25-15

Will happily fit inside any spare CD-ROM bay.

Definitely enough to power a single 12v pump to an over-volted level, and cheap too.

These PSU's can run in either 115v or 230v countries.

Cathar, I have just been checking my calcs for the graphs in the nexxos thread. I have a problem regarding heat dumped into the loop by MCP650, which you give as 15w.
It seems this pump only draws 15-20w?

http://img99.exs.cx/img99/1219/consommation.png
Courtesy of Roscal

Transformers do not convert AC. They step it up, down let it remain the same and issolate it. Bridge rectifiers "convert" ac to dc.

why not the S-25-12 which runs 12volts?

What's the problem?

Typical real-world operating range is 250-500lph, or 17-18W as per Roscal's graph.

The pump transfers very close to 90% of its input power draw to the water as heat, and the other 10% exits via the plastic casing. 15W is a lower-end estimate for the heat dumped by the pump. In typical use it's more like 15-16W. I personally measured 16W with a Laing D4, and 15.5W with the MCP650, with a Cascade block in the loop as resistance.

If you're surprised at just what a large percentage of input power gets converted as heat, then don't be. Look at the pump's design. Metallic wetted body with eletromagnets attached to the metal that water flows over constantly. The electro-magnets produce most of the heat, and the water cools them almost directly. A small portion of the heat gets convected by air into the plastic pump body, as well as the small micro-controller generating some of its own heat - again - being dumped into the sealed plastic body - for which the heat can exit by the plastic housing, or through the wetted metallic end.

The question was basically "How do we achieve the ~13-15v that you talk about for over-volting the pumps".

A 12v PSU isn't going to do it.

oh ok. sorry.
yeah the 15 would only get you to 13.2v

Thanks for the explanation Cathar. Just wanted confirmation that you were certain it really was putting such a high fraction of the input power into the water.

Does anyoneone have figures for the Hydor L20 wattage put into the water?

Cathar nice article.

Im confused why the laing D4 and hydor pumps were not included though? Apart from the niose, I have always considered the D4 to be the perfrect pump for watercooling pc's.
Currently I have mine running @ 9v.

I am Considering changing it for a silent pump, like a hydor L20, as they are very cheap, I could get some money back from the D4...

The hydor pumps also give better pressure than the eqivalent eheim, iirc.. so I dont see why anyone would recommend an ehiem over the hydor, becasue they cost twice as much and are bigger.

the D4 is the same product as the mcp650

So it is..
With more than one company rebranding them, maybe it should be called by the manufactuers name?
Is there any difference atall between the liang/swiftech and dangerden rebranded pumps?

Reliability? Quiet? My experience with the 1046, 1048, and HPPS is that they are very reliable.

Are the hydors not also just as quiet? and just as reliable? Ive never used one...

Also I think eheim 1250's should not be used for pc watercooling, they are just too big, where the graphs show little difference in performance. A 1048 should be used instead..

I've never used a 1250. I do have 10 or 12 w/c systems out there (mostly 1046) that AFAIK are run 24x7 (about half without pump relays - pump just stays on). They're built for friends, and I've been building 'em for four years or so. No pump failures.
I know that's nothing next to the experience someone like BillA has (hundreds or thousands of pumps and when they're broken - at least under warranty - they go back to him) but my very small data sample says that the 1046 and 1048 are very reliable.
They're also quite quiet. I do mount them on foam pads, make sure they're not touching any panels, and use soft silicone hosing.

As a side issue, I particularly like the combination unit any of these make with the Innovatek "AGB-O-Matic" reservoir. You basically do need a reservoir if you are using silicone tubing as it loses water faster than vinyl.

Cathar, thanks for this amazingly great info. I am using it in my pump reccomendations article over at XS. Here is a link. Please check it out when you get a chance and let me know what you think. I sited and gave you some thanks in the thread for your info and linked to this article that you made.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...353#post532353

Well a pump that answers most of the requists given on the first page of this thread:
Huge head, flow between 10-14 LPM, DC pump. - By Panworld.
Would this be a good solution?

First graph from the right.

http://xs4.xs.to/pics/04481/PanWorldPage4.jpg

I don't think there's a way to answer your question from the data here - unless there's a way to tell from pump curves how much heat a pump will put into water(...?)

The idea is that every pump puts some heat into the water - and that it varies by pump and loop resistance (although it doesn't necessarily go up with resistance).
Many water blocks become more efficient as they have water pushed through them at higher head. No matter how efficient, all water blocks start out with a "base" temperature - which is coolant temp.
Your radiator/fan setup has some limit beyond which coolant temperatures rise.
So... Cathar's point was that there's a "point of diminishing returns" where pump heat has warmed the coolant more than any gain in waterblock efficiency can compensate for.

The curves you've posted show pressure/volume, which, I think, might be used to predict waterblock efficiency. But you'd also need pump heat figures to get the rest of the equation.
AFAIK the only real way to get pump heat figures is to run the pump in an insulated loop and measure heat rise, but it's not going to be more than the power you're putting into the pump - but I don't see any figures for amps or wattage (I might be missing it, of course). The "external 4-20mA" seems to refer to input from an external control circuit (which is way cool but not the pump wattage figure).

Can you estimate the amount of heat put into the water from the maximal amount of watts the pump draws?
For example the Panworld 40PX (the equivelent to an 20RLT in AC configuration) consumes 45 watts of power. - and therefore cannot put more than that into the water?
I will try to find out what DC volts are required for the pump above, and watt consumption, if this helps.

Cool! - You don't happen to own one of these, do you? Measuring pump heat is pretty straightforward (you just need a bucket, hoses, thermometer and (optionally) a resistance, like a water block...)

O.k. here is some more information and it definetly looks good:

Panworld 50PXZD - DC Brushless:
Comes with 12 volts or 24 your choice
Input watts = 40 Output=29
This one definetly looks to be the best one.

Panworld 50PXZ - AC Pump.
Input watts=65 Output=45

And there is also another new pump the PI-15ZD DC pump:
Max Head = 9 meters Max Flow=9 LPM
Input watts=45 Output=20

Well as my funds and prices in Israel don't really do well with each other...i might have to take the AC version....you can see its PQ above ....it's the dotted line. It puts out 20 watts into the water....would this pump be any good?

OK, so now hopefully one of the pump experts will chime in.
In the meanwhile, looking at the charts on the first page of this thread, the 50 performance appears to be between the Iwaki 15 and 20Z (closer to the 20) and heat put into the water looks to be about the same situation, so maybe use the graphs there to figure if this pump makes sense given the heat you're moving and your cooling capacity (how big a rad and how much air you push through it).

.......opps nevermind I thought the 15pz model numbers listed above were the spec on the 12v 50PX

We were also talking about the 50PX Here.

when you said that the Eheim 1048/1250 was the good silent choice for the dual radiators how do you think it would fair in a setup with a thermochill 120.3? Would it still be fairly effective and a good silent choice? When you said that the Swiftech MPC600/AquaXtreme 50Z would be the 2nd choice for larger Rad setups would you consider a 120.3 a 'large' rad of were you talking more about large passive Rads or dual rad setups?

Do you think I would still be ok getting an eheim 1250/1048 or would I be a lot better off trying to source a MCP600/AquaXtreme 50Z instead?

Oh and i'll be cooling both my CPU and GPU so will the added resistance in the loop mean either of them would become the out right winner?

Cheers

Yes Chew_Toy i saw it....it looks very similar....
But i am still interested in the following one as well:

And there is also another new pump the PI-15ZD DC pump:
Max Head = 9 meters Max Flow=9 LPM
Input watts=45 Output=20
and does 5LPM at 5 Meter head.

I would like to hear comments about this last pump.
it looks as if it would be equivelent to 3 MCP 600?