I haven't asked Dangerden for anything lately. Judging from ROKK's comments about my RBX review at xtremesystems, I kinda doubt I am on their short list for preview and review supplies.

This I gotta read! Cup of coffee - check!

Nothing too serious but I think that offense was taken to my mounting comments. Judging from that thread though I'd expect the hardware reviewers who all posted there about how my comments were bogus would be ahead of me in line for review items :)

It certainly does seem that only customers and reviewers who paid for their blocks experiece said issue.

Just an aside: I cama accross another 12V pump, brushless, performance roughly comparable to the MCP600. It is made in Australia and specs are listed :here:. Basically a Johnson CM30P7-1 but shorter, with brushless motor. Half the flow, but 7 times the lifespan...

I have one - working in my second system - right now.

More info here

Thanks that's useful info.

Just for laughs, I found another one :here:. If you have a big-ass case, and need serious cooling, and have serious money (and don't mind the noise this pump no doubts generates), this could be your baby! All metal, hand-polished or anodised in the colour of your choice. I'm trying to get some data on this one in any case.

Here's my PQ curve for the Laing D4 @ 12V that I have here:

http://www.employees.org/~slf/curves.../laingd4-2.png

At 22c with new tubing?
Did quick number check on your Laing D4 test data.

Actually, yes, on both counts.

Tubing was brand new 1/2" ID Clearflex 60

Ambient was 21-22C in my house.

The D4 pump I measured to be drawing ~17-20W, as opposed to the 12-15W that Laing says it does. This was verified with a multimeter monitoring the current draw and voltage supplied.

The pump is indeed sucking down more power, but giving greater performance as a result, at 12V than what Laing specify. The difference is large enough that I suspect a revision change as the Laing engineer I spoke to mentioned that they had been continually refining the pumps.

More interesting is the pump's performance at higher voltages. The pump is rated at up to 24V operation due to it meant to be powered by solar cells from my understanding of why the pump exists.

At 16V (actually tested) the pump is an "almost" match in terms of performance with my 50Hz Iwaki MD30-RZ, but draws just 24W (rather than ~60W).

At 20V I estimate that it would be a dead-on match for a 50Hz MD40-RZ or a 60Hz MD30-RZ and draw around 32W, if it follows the same performance increase pattern that I'm seeing from 5V->16V.

Edit: I should add that this performance does come at a cost - and that is noise. At 12V the pump is about the same pitch/volume as a ~4000RPM 60mm fan. At 16V, more like a ~5000RPM 60mm fan, and at 20V I reckon you'd be remembering the bad old days of screaming delta 60mm fans.

hmm - how much quieter (and at what performance cost) would you get by dropping below 12V? ... the power draw seems within the specs of a sunbeam rheobus....

have you tried different orientations of the pump to see if that affects the noise? (seem to recall the mcp600 is quieter with the intake vertical...)

My pump gets considerably quiter at below 10V. At 10V it's about the same volume/pitch as one of the Johnson CO30P5-1 pumps @ 12V from the Surplus Center (the pump that BB2K was talking about a while back).

At 7V it's about a match for an Eheim 1048 for performance, with a noise level that would not be easily heard outside of a closed case of a running system.

I found this mfgr and I think it's the MCP600 reseller (graph and pics are the same ), true Billa :D? : http://www.clarksol.com/html/prodspecsNH_PXDPump.htm

http://www.clarksol.com/images/NHPXDSerInertMagPump.jpg

You could probably have a better price for these pumps directly to them, but not sure...

PS: I don't see this firm anywhere on this forum (search). If someone put it on a previous thread, sorry...

they appear to be 24V - also only the 3/4" versions show as much head as the mcp600....

Clarksol is not the manufacturer. They rebadge also.

The Solution
 

HI everyone!
My first post at Pro/Forums :)
I realized recently that I rfer back here more and more often and decided to join your ranks fellas and I am honoured to be a member of this magnificent society.

Back on track.

I decided to go different route in search for massive head/flow/price ratios - to cut long story short I am running my system (extremely restrictive setup) on domestic heating circulation pump Wilo Gold 50.
Most of my system is hard plumbed to avoid unecessary restrictions, and I use MCW5000P-T and MCW50-T to cool my H'ware. North bridge is air cooled (want to TEC it ASAP since it's the biggest 'heater' in my system at the mo - almost fanless and certainly silent design, all I can hear is Enermax's fan:) ).
Anyway, pump is so strong that water cavitates at max speed setting and when I first tested it with some pieces of thin walled tubing suction pressure was causing this tubing to collapse on itself !! :D.
I am over the moon with this pump, cost me a pathetic £36 at B&Q (can get it much cheaper), but...., yes, there's a thorn here, it runs HOT (since it's for central heating purposes) and to combat this I used 92mm Zalman @5v to cool it's casing (it's bolted to the outside of my chieftec tower). I went for Wilo since it was much cheaper than magical Grundfos (which probably runs colder since it's the best quality on the market).

Anyways, I am not going back to centrifugal horrors any more ;)

EDIT: typos

Do you have any page for that pump so we can check it?
We normally are searching for this expensive pumps, because, one of their major advantages is that they are as powerfull for pc watercooling as pumps that consume 3 or 4 times more.
So, they add much less heat than the other pumps to the water, improving the cooling eficiency of our systems.

Ah, and welcome to procooling.




You sure? :evilaugh:

Now better ? ;)

Thanks for warm welcome ( he he he)

Here is your link
What do you think folks? :cool:

http://www.gold-nuggets.co.uk/gphgold5.gif

40w input at low setting (60 and 88 med and high)
looks like the even more insane gold60 is only about £5 more...
http://www.gold-nuggets.co.uk/gphgold6.jpg
46/67/93 watts...

so, the under $80 question is, how noisy is it?

It is, believe it or not completely silent. Al I can hear when like having my ear 25cm away is slight cavitation noises at top speed setting - inaudible.
I went for smaller one hoping for less pump heat dumped into my loop.
Oh, it's of course mains supply :)

Well, the PQ curve for the Gold60 at low setting is roughly about the same as the Laing D4 at 12V, and the Laing D4 is consuming ~19W (between 15-21W depending on restriction).

The Gold60 at high setting is roughly equivalent to the D4 when run at 16V, and the D4 is consuming ~24W or so at that level.

BUT- its cheap
guess you get what you pay for

I don't see that in the numbers..

From Cathars graph above at 2M the Laing is flowing like 3.25GPM and the Gold 60 (low) looks like 1.5-2GPM. Double the heat, half the flow.

Gold60 (high) is more like 10.5GPM@2M... not sure what the flow is like on the Laing beyond the 12V mark but its hard to believe its close to 10.5gpm@2M head.

Not to mention that the heat output would overwhelm most 'typical' setups.. the pump bearings on the Gold60 list as wet which seems to mean that the heat output is pretty much going to dump into the water.

Cheap yea... and the Gold series has a manufacturers warrantee for 24months.. Brass or cast iron pump.. heavy.. hot....

If I was Airspirit.. 3+ computers.. Yea the Gold60 would look good...

Hard to vote for the Laing for the noise issues above 12V, but it sure seems like a nice choice for price/performance/heat....

hmm - i suspect that the Gold graph will be imperial gallons not US (since it's a uk pump...)

surely the point would be to use one of the higher power settings - gold 50 on mid (60 watts - about the same as an iwaki md30) is about 6(uk)gpm at 2m head... or perhaps more realistically 3.5(uk)gpm at 3m (since i doubt any waterblock etc would have a 2m head at 6gpm...)

and is about the same price as an eheim 1048 :)

my (anticipated) reservation would be pump life.... as it may be guaranteed for 2 years, but thats in a central heatiing operation, where it's not normally running 24/7 (even if the heating is on 24/7) afaik...

Cast Iron scares me.

If you think aluminum is bad, take a peek at the galvanic potential for cast iron.

And that two year warranty is only good if you use a 50/50 water/antifreeze mix.

Central heating pumps do tend to run 24/7 if you have the heating on all the time. Generally the pump is always circulating water and the boiler just switches on and off to maintain the required temperature.

are you sure - afaik the boiler fires to maintain the required water temperature, but the pump would only circulate water round the system when the thermostat turns the system itself on - when the room temperature is high enough then it would be off...

the 24 month warranty (which is from date of manufacture not purchase) is subject to it being installed in accordance with their O&M manual...i doubt that pc watercooling would fall within that ;)

My general point was to test and prove that one can use central heating pump in WC system with success. I think I proved it to be the case. My temperatures are phenomenal if you consider that my system is fanless, do not require digging trenches in back garden ( ;) ) and is powered by a pump which dumps massive amount of heat into water loop (system is quite small, just employed some very basic solid state physics in revolutionary way, and it's dirt cheap and anyone can do it at home :) ).
Water temps are no more than 34C and before with Saab all copper heater core cooled by ~300CFM of fans sounding like space shuttle taking off it was 28 C ! :).

In my book for this amount of ££ I got massive head to flow power.
Only down side is lots of pump heat dumped into my loop which is easy to overcome ( I read somwhere that sb wanted to water cool his pump - I suppose I am just doing this ;) ).
Life of pump is more than 5 years on average from my experience, central heating pumps DO NOT FAIL almost at all. From my professional experience the only time pump is changed is when new boiler is coming in with general CH system overhaul or there was an installation error. The other thing is that in computer cooling pump is running very much less load than house central heating.
Lastly I run demineralized water with antifreeze additive all for car cooling system.

EDIT: It's Ethylene Glycol based coolant good for -65C at 60% water solution. I added roughly about 1/8th of the botle (1litre) into 3litres of water.