lol, my bourneo sucker would say similar if he could talk :p

Unfortuantly Maxx's test bench has a larger error margin than the result differences. But yeah, the differences are not going to be measurable from even the above average user.

Problem is a manufacture will claim their rad is superior just because it has a .1C lower temp. :D I am so put off by PC rad manufactures right now I am am either going to build my own copper tube rad or just buy a heater core for my upcoming system build.

so basically they're identical, though on the quality note i'm going to favor the BIX (one of MR's 12T samples had a soldered-over flowtube...)

Joe, any thoughts on locking this thread? I'm not sure we're getting anything productive out of it.

I never insinuated or stated that there were no competing products. However, the 12T is the only product that is a potental competitor.

BTW Sales to direct to retailers are less than 2% of sales. If you talk to retailers they might indeed think my company is a bottom feeder.

The Reservoir is an OEM item, no secret we manufacture it and Swiftech has distributed our CoolSleeves from day one.

The project we just completed was designing and manufacturing OEM components. No CoolingWorks on it, happily not involved in marketing and distribution.

Market share will increase for the other companies we service but I do not see that having a net affect on our business becouse we are predominantly OEM. I would much prefer to see the market simply grow and everyone make more money.

Dude this thread goes to 11! I mean wow, a few days ago we had BillA Vs Bruce in the cage fight throwing F bombs like they were going out of style. Now we have Lothar Vs Cathar in the CAGE OF DOOM - 2 will go in, and 2 will come out just with some slight bruises to their ego :)

Who's next for a round?

and yes Jaydee, I am going to add that smilie I think. this is the best entertainment on the forum since JMKE and Liquid3D were banned.

[quote=Joe]Joe - Web slacker, incharge of fueling flame wars, comedy relief, inaccurate timelines, and just general ****ing around. Oh and I own Procooling[.QUOTE]

What's is inaccurate timeliness? Hopefully you can give me some detials so I can use that oxymoron next time im late. Supervisor might get a laugh out of it

I think we should have a flaming archive for the future.

the ego-bomb zone
the pressue builds and builds until a micro-fault triggers 'da bomb'
with the predictable distruction of civility (and increase in candor);
from the perspective of the charred relations one can harvest sufficient humility . . . .
to have restraint 'till some other jackass sets me off again

slow learner, or not so unhappy with the results
in any case the format needs improvement

should I recast these 'facts' (sic) differently ?

HEY GUYS !
Swiftech needs your help. They/Gabe owes me a bunch of $ but they are making less and less.
Can the profoolers here please buy more Swiftech products so they can lose more . . ?
no, wait; buy less so they lose less . . . ?
hmm, what might work ?
the company needs to turn around so they need a turn-around expert !

new management could do the trick
so who wants to buy Swiftech ?

now the debate over the value

If ego is at the root of the problem at Swiftwreck... how could a serious investor buy it?

The water-cooled PC market seems to me a "leisure" market. This is complete speculation on my part and my real goal is to fuel more discontent among this thread's readers!

Does anyone think that the PC water-cooling market is in the 8 figures?

(Disclaimer: I have no facts, just assumptions)

You should build you own! The other stuff you build looks great. Have you ever sold any of your projects? You and a few others here could start your own outfit and sell you stuff. Why hasn't anyone done this yet?

Seriously, with the way this site "distills" facts, you could not fail.

Nope, never sold a thing I made.

I was getting all prepared to do so a year or 2 ago. I even contacted Cathar and asked if he wanted a US manufacture and distributor of his blocks.

Had the equipment lined out and financing setup. Just couldn't get the long term business plan to work out.

To many uncertainties. If I lived in a larger city and could use the equipment for other things then that would have pushed me to go forward. However the local economy here is shit and already has a well established machine shops. None of them to interested in water blocks either.

That is all good though. I don't have what it takes to run a business anyway.

As i suspected with such a market... Have you considered selling your ideas or designs to some of the companies already in the market? Looks like one of them could use the help :p

At the risk of starting another flame war...


Is it just me, or does BillA's sentence structure remind you of a Chinese exchange student trying to read Shakespeare?

LOL!! Totally!

My name is Hung... Hung Lo... On the morrow, i shall see the sun... er.. no i shall not see the sun...

Hey superart, you should be out of university soon... what's your major?

Nah, prefer to stay out of the commercial scene all together. Hard to be seen as an objective tester if you have commercial intrests.

lamentable that perception is taken as fact, thanks again to that jerk among many others

I don't think so... being objective is in your method and data if it is transparent. i would not want to encourage you should it prove to be nothing more than a passionate hobby. What is your vision of the market? Can you state it in a sentence? If you can then try your commercial intrest... as it is said "For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity"

I have tried and failed... and i will continue to try...

Look up threads regarding JoeC's recent commercial announcement. Many are not happy that he was reviewing while producing a commercial product.

Just for the record I am not saying you can't be objective if you have commercial interests. Just saying the people that would read my reviews would not feel the same way. We bashed JoeC a while back after we learned of his thermalsyphon deal. Although some of his testing methods at the time also seems odd.

Unregistered has been called unobjective as many others. In this day and age it is expected the person giving you info is simply trying to make a buck off you and will say whatever it takes to do such.

My vision of the market is simply not to get into it unless you have plans to do more than just water cooling. The future of water cooling is way to hard to estimate to make a solid business plan/model. From what I have gatherd on CPU design we may not even be able to mount a water block in 10-20 years. That would be instant death. You would want a primary market to get into and make water cooling stuff secondary. That way if water cooling is not possible in the future you will still have a primary market to pay the bills.

As for selling designs I would rather not. I honestly don't have anything better than whats already available to sell anyway. The Storm is a tought act to follow. The MP-05 SP is pretty much the design I have been trying to make for a couple years now and just havn't had the ability or time.

Nah, I am going back to my roots of DIY.

Sure, I understand all that. You said it best... get back to your roots.

AngryAlpaca... read you loud and clear...

What an interesting group of pros

Oh hell no! I'm not qualified to do that. I've learned more from your experience than I actually know. All I can do is give friendly advice and/or contacts, if available (I have none). (Dammit Jim!) I'm a bouncing board, not a negotiator.

The report shows a "Defered compensation" then in note 4 states that there exists an agreement with "certain officers" ... "...upon the Company's financial ability to pay such amounts".

Obviously you and Gabe never reached an agreement (otherwise we wouldn't be here), and the question that is left is:

***
- Does Gabe recognize owing you anything?
***

If so, you can bet that the terms are going to be left open ended. Live and learn.

If not, then there is an act of bad faith involved.

Which is it? (I'll assume the former)

I've worked for friends under similar circumstances, but they eventually learned that salary is not something to be meddled with; this is people's livelyhood here.

The real worry is that Gabe has the ability to put the company in such a position that it may take years before the deferred compensation can be resolved; just add another SUV, buy more equipment, stock up on supplies/inventory, etc....

***
- Do you have any reason to believe that he would do such a thing?
***

Don't have a whole lot to add to the cause; however I am sorry to hear that such an influential person as Bill A is being hosed by Swiftech. Good Luck man

Naw, I'm not getting out any time soon. These bitches have me snaged, and are milking me for all I'm worth. horay for higher education. :D

no, sereously. I'm in my 3rd year now, and will probalby need 2-3 more years after this one. I started out in FIT doing a dual major in computer and aerospace engineering. I stayed there for 2 years untill I ran out of money. Then I transfered to FAU, where I am now. Now I am only majoring in Computer Engineering, since FAU has no aerospace program.

Ah man. This is what makes procooling worth visiting every now and then.