Max, not sure if I can say this but I am on short time anyways :)

We have a plastic threaded case, and several of our testers had problems with metal fittings, with one person even splitting the case. It would require a larger case to overcome this problem. We could not use a stronger plastic as it would not flow properly in our mold. We discussed this with several of our main dealers, and determined this case was not a good idea with NPT fittings. They also noted current case apperance over this test model.

I have never seen any kind of pitting on a Mark II, only on some early Mark I blue models, which where processed by another anodizing contractor. From what I know about anodizing, it is not a perfect process as you suggest, but I also understand Anolok results in much less problems. You should be aware plastic is not a perfect process either, alot can go wrong during production, trust me I know :)

I understand bard plastic cases are on the way, thanks to a recent OEM order.
I do not know when so please do not email me. We are really swamped with OEM, industrial, and parent company orders. The mag and 750 are being used in at least 10 new consumer products I know, and likely many more I do not know about. I am currently collecting permissions to post links to these products on C-Systems site.

... I'm starting to sound like a broken record...
 

Dave:

In order for this to happen, the plastic must have been fairly weak and brittle.

The aluminum casing are obviously machined. Am I correct? Danger Den uses an acetal top on their maze 4 gpu blocks (which, as far as I know, are machined). I haven't seen any reports of cracking with the acetal tops, granted they have not been on the market long. Just a suggestion, one off a case with from acetal (aka derlin).

Or you could just wait until one of us does it as a mod. Let us know when the pumps will be available to consumers. Thanks for keeping us posted.

It is Delrin not Derlin.

There are two types of Acetal. One is "Acetal homopolymer" AKA Delrin.

The other "Acetal copolymer" is actually better from what I understand. It's AKA is Ultraform or Celecon. It has better chemical resistances than Delrin and seems to be stronger. What I don't know is if it machines as easy as Delrin.

My mistake. SP error.

I called it Derlin for a long time untill I used it at work and noticed it was Delrin when I had to order more. :D

Plastic will sometimes give un-expected results Max.
The area that split was not directly on the thread shaft. It was in an area where the stress from the taper focused, in the pump chamber itself. More people just plan stripped the threads. The plastic we used for this test was PPE, because of flow concerns. We re-designed using a two piece system with the volute chamber seperate. It is this extra peice that is used in retail Mag's.

Delrin is a great material, but it does not have good flow when used in injection molding with thin sections. We use Delrin in the pump volute insert where wall thickness is higher.

If everyone is really that concerned about Anolok in a small area, I will ask about the barb dates, and maybe bring back the plastic thread case for G 1/4 fittings only (no taper). I see there getting the WEB pages fitted, and the new ones are working well. I had email the store was back up, and the whole site maybe down for a day or two next week, well they switch over to a new server / host, as the DNS needs time to broadcast.

I am just glad not to do WEB work anymore :dome:

Hi, Dave.
I'm from Brazil and i've purchased a MAG for testing.
I produce a hi-turbulenced WaterBlock, called MORINGA (Copper base with 19 turbulence copper pins, brass cover, chromed finishing including copper barbs).
I'm running with a AC Pump, manufactured by Invensys (in loop 6 l/min), but it is 10cm tall. My intention is to use your pump to substitute that on my assembly line.
My personal unit is running (24hours x 7days x 6 months) a XP1800+ @2300Mhz with room temp 28ºC - CPU temp 29,9 ºC.
Would C-System MAG overperforme my actual pump?

For everybody: i'm sorry for my bad english

http://img216.exs.cx/img216/3994/fot...ingaamd7ep.jpg

http://img195.exs.cx/img195/497/moringapinos1mr.th.jpg

http://img125.exs.cx/img125/1018/mor...sbase0c.th.jpg

Sweet block... any chance you'll ship to the states? If so how much? (even if its not for me, I'm sure someone would ask at some point).

Block does look very cool!
Not sure if MAG will improve your temps, sounds like you already have more then enough flow.

I think your only advantage will be DC vs AC and rpm input.

You should know, the products I posted about are NOT for PC liquid cooling. There all industrial or consumer products. We only recently excepted very large orders for PC cooling and this is for servers, not home systems (at least this is what we where told).

We have developed complete sealed systems at AVT under contract, but it is unlikely we will get the production contract as well. It is not very often that AVT gets to produce what we develop.

Thanks.
For now, i'm improving construction method and making some changes on turbulence pins. So, it's out of stock, until complete these work.
I've sold for $45 USD including silicone/pvc hose and plexiglass retaining clip.

RPM input sound very well. As well nice size of C-System pumps. But i'm really concerned about eletromagnetic interference.

That's InvensysAppliance problem: their pumps do not have any magnetic shield (just plastic cover) and generate a lot of EMF. My monitor image is flickering at 30cm distance of pump.

http://eberle.plugin.com.br/extranet...images/754.jpg

I think you missed the machining part. Instead of using aluminum stock and milling it use Delrin stock instead. No need for injection molding, just use the machine process already setup and change your feed rate speeds (probably faster to mill) and maybe cutters (probably no need to though).

But anyway that's in an ideal world. :cool:

No need to worry about EMF with Mag, Arivaldo.
The pump was designed so it could be placed right next to the CPU.

We produce more of those pumps for industrial use because most OEM companies order in very large numbers to reduce there cost.

Machine the whole back housing out of Delrin Jay?
I don't know, I never tried to machine colored Delrin before.
What is the finish like?

We only machine it for prototypes and use natural.

I suspect engineering wise it will work fine, maybe expensive. I guess the only issue is finish?

Done for the day and going home :)

Cathar makes the G4-G5 with it and it comes out pretty sweet. The middle pice and the top is both Delrin. I should not be any harder to machine than Aluminum, probably faster. But that is just a theory.
http://www.procooling.com/reviews/as...gp_jets_sm.jpg
http://www.procooling.com/reviews/as...mounted_sm.jpg

Have a nice day!

Sorry but I did not get to make a Delrin MAG case this week.

We have had major problems at work. Our magnetizing system started to malfunction early this week. We spent 4 days isolating all the problems and will be down for a week or two rebuilding it.

We also ran out of MAG stock, more parts will be in next week but without magnets there not much use. C-Systems should have stock again in 2-3 weeks.

Some of you may find our problems interesting. In order to magnetize Neo based rare earth magnets, you must use large amounts of electrical charge. We have a charger about 6 feet high by 3 wide consisting mostly of large liquid capacitors.

A transformer charges the capacitors, and then we release all the energy at once into a magnetic fixture. The fixture consist of large coils with an iron care in the shape of the magnetic and pattern you wish to apply on to it.

So much energy is applied to this core that we need to water cool it just like a PC ! :)

The amount of mechanical stress on the core is very high. In our case too the point where the core was cracked. I was charging some prototype high force magnets for a high pressure MAG version last Friday, and it looks like I over stressed the fixture and caused the crack. This crack grew and shorted the coils, which cause problems with our charger.

Sorry if this is boring you, but as an engineer I think it is impressive to break metal with magnetic force.

It make me impressed too. I presume it uses chilled water...

Just in case, i hope my Mag order has already been shipped before that crack. :confused: :confused:

No it is not chilled, we just use a small AC pump and a Black Ice rad.

I cut a standard retail MAG pump housing today out of black Acetal, and it looks real nice. Very hard to tell the aluminum drive housing from the plastic pump housing, as I used the same finishing belts and did a quick polishing pass afterwards.

Will try and take some pictures tomorrow.

Thanks too the boys at DD for there input, I figured they where the people to ask about best finish settings.

I should have approval for this option soon, and will also see about a simple mold.

Great suggestion guys :D

Sounds good! :cool:

oo I can't wait to see it and would definatly like to get my hands on one.

It would appear you already have approval fella... I just received an e-mail from C-Systems basically saying our order is awaiting our decision as to whether we want NPT or G1/4 threads, whether we want rear or top inlet, and whether we want Delrin or Aluminium body (none of these options were originally made available to us when the pumps were ordered at the backend of last year).

Have gone for rear inlet, G1/4, Delrin body... wise decision??

^So I see. AVT sent engineering approval to C-Systems this morning, and I understand someone already placed in a large order, perhaps yours?

I guess I will be making a mold soon, which is good, because I do not feel good about being paid for 10 hours a week by C-Systems, and spending 9 hours if this doing nothing :)

Hmmm... no can do on the G1/4 as can't source fittings at a decent price so have changed that to Delrin / Rear Inlet / NPT Thread....

And aye, more than likley it'll be our order... we actually ordered a LOAD of 750MkII's back in September I think last year, received 50% of the order, then the news popped up regarding the MAGs coming out. Sales on the 750MkII's dropped off as soon as that news hit the shelves, and we flipped the remaining 50% of our order over to MAGs there n' then and been sat waitin' patiently since!

Look forward to seeing them in Delrin... u not got a digicamera handy there d00d?? :D

Dave,
Could you please explain me about that back inlet.
I'm a little confused with diagram at C-Systems page.
Thank you again.

http://www.c-systems.ca/c_files/flow.jpg

Delrin/Acetal, my suggestion? Dosn't matter, as I am glad to see it as an option as others will be. I really hope C-Systems delivers this time. Would you happen to know how dtek and/or danger den ordered their pumps (they will probably be the only retailers an end user such as myself would be able to obtain one from)?

... the beauty of physics....

Arivaldo, almost everything on the WEB page is from old prototypes built way back in 2004.

Our final impeller, bearings, and drive have not been presented on the WEB site.
C-Systems has hired another firm to redesign the WEB site and hopefully will be updated soon. The final design is very compact and versatile allowing the drive section to be used in many different configurations.

I will send pictures to the new WEB masters for placement on the C-Systems site, so you can see the difference in port options.

Dave,
I don't know Mag new impeller configuration, but i'd like to suggest you to make it closed. Sounds to be more efficient.


http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/Char...d_impeller.gif

Hello! :)

What about the PQ curves that were promised? I'd like to have an idea of the flow and pressure.We could have a graphic with the pump configured for the largest pressure and one for the largest water flow. I am from Europe and more interested in pumps with high head pressure.

What about the new website and new pics?

Also, no news about the rebate for owner of CSP750 pumps?

PS/ Omg, I almost forgot this question: has someone already received a unit for testing?

While we have a decent discussion about pumps going....

Does anyone know what makes a pump have a high head (read: pressure) rating? How about a high flow rating? What produces more pressure, closed or open impeller? What produces a larger flow rate, a close or open impeller? What type of an impeller do most our pumps use (MCP600,650,350, eheims, mags, iwakis)? Do certain structural limitations exist when using a closed impeller? What is the benefit to using an open impeller? I feel that this would be good general information for the community to have.

I would tend to say that a closed impeller is more efficient overall. It would be the equivalent of having two open impellers facing each other (a rough analysis). Open impeller pumps can be smaller, are easier to manufacture, and are much easier to design as a mag drive (to the best of my knowledge). Most of the pumps that we use are open impellers with the exception of iwakis which are closed. I honestly don't know about the MCP 650. Anyone else want to chime in?

I believe the MCP350\DDC, MCP600\50Z, MCP650\D4 all use closed impellor designs(high head). Most aquarium mag pumps use open impellors(high flow).

AC pumps use open impeller because they do not have a direction for rotation so they can not use curved blades.
With DC uni-direction pumps we can use curved blades on impeller and making them closed reduce attrition inside chamber increasing performance at all.
With open impeller power is lost by fluid attrition at volute (internal wall chamber).
I noticed that MCP350 / Laing uses closed impeller.

Eh? An AC motor will always spin the same way, so you can use curved blades if desired. AC fans work after all.