Heh... lets get a photo of me doing it for a start rather than Mike and Louise (yes, that's a lady hanging off the side of that one...)

http://www.minimotosidecars.org/site...l_IMG_1502.jpg

Me = far right... and yes, walls hurt, other sidecars on the inside as you overtake them, or undertaking you and clouting you up the ass as they pass... it's very much a contact sport with passengers punching other passengers etc when yer close enough to reach, but only cos we all know each other so well... if only they'd let us have weapons too... :D

with Marci on this, the crux and bane of new product development
spot on post Willie

http://www.madmaxmovies.com/making/m...WezFaceoff.jpg

yeah, off topic

U read my mind...

The thing with single pass rads is that they tend to bulk up a bit more.

However, with the trend towards constricting waterblocks these things do make a difference.

Yeah, but which one are you? ;)

That is exactly what I want. :) a 80mm version would be cool to.

My approximator says with a MCP350 @ 6.046 LPM, a HE120.2 gives 0.11m H20 of head, whereas a G4 block gives 0.92m H2O of head.
Removing the radiator's restrictiveness in total improves the flow rate to 6.366 LPM, ie: by 0.320 LPM.
That 0.320LPM improves the block C/W by 0.001.

JSE @ OCAU swears his signgle pass 3x120 HC is noticeable better than a dual pass, so there must be some other reason (better shroud, better FPI?)

LHG
there is yet another tradeoff, lower velocity in the tubes - not too helpful

The question was should we have a "Sub forum for Radiator Design"?

I cant say it any better than LPork:

I bought one Koolance System soley for resale. Things didnt work out that way so now I'm modding it.

I have no intention of buying any watercooling equipment from anyone because I enjoy building my crazy ideas myself. Posting them. And being told I'm crazy! :D

However; I do like to be inspired by people like Cathar and company, and admire their ethics. If I was the buying type you can be sure that none of my cash would end up in some copycat's pocket.

Sooo....: How about 30 000 Volts instead of noisy radiator fans???
Lifters
:)

Isn't JSE an importer/reseller of that radiator?

ooof
gut shot if true
gonna give importers/resellers a bad name

Read the whole thread Bill. Let me know your assessment JSE's claims.

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...d.php?t=373789

oh oh
that is a CoolWave rad !
get ready for a sh*t storm

post 25 marks jse as a liar, he avoids the lie by not answering
technically what is being described is not possible

so Agg locks the thread ??

sorry Stew but you have a high percentage of flakes in the WCing business down under
but that is offset by the willingness of Aussies to buy misrepresented shit because an Aussie is selling it
whew

my assessment ?
a lying salesman with mediocre product peddling it by misrepresentation
(to contest this statement he will have to substantiate his assertions, lol)

Laminar flow inside the tubes shouldn't be much of an issue given small radiators.

But if that does happen, there are a few tricks that can be employed with tank and header design.

Going back to fundamentals, single-pass radiators have the same cooling capacity as two-pass radiators of the same core dimensions. All it does is give those constricto-matic type blocks a hand.

From that thread ^^^ and my exact point here - I can't get ANYONE to release any data or proof of performance for these clones, no matter what brand name I look under... xspc, radiical, Alphacool NexXxoS Xtreme III, etc etc... all the same thing from the same company... various "reviews" claiming they outperform other rads in "real world" testing *spit*... yet no-one is willing to show the necessary stuff to prove the claimed performance.

The quote above was simply in reply to "what fan did u use on the rad to get c/w rating u just stated" (basically)

Anyone likely to be in the know representing any of the quoted companies who is asked simply replies with "we can't divulge that info" or similar.

That's rich. :D

It isn't that they won't release it, it is likely they do not know what they're talking about.

A lot of these people, even the "chinese" manufacturers are actually trading firms. They simply go to their local supplier, normally with a sample of our rad, and tell them they want this done at this price.

I've seen one too many emails with claims saying "Better than the Black Ice blah blah blah" but doesn't really show any metrics and testing parameters.

We've long mentioned that its easy to design a heat exchanger to just "one up" a sample by changing a few parameters.

Referring back to an earlier post, radiator engineers are a very cautious and over-qualifying lot when presenting information about radiator performance.

"single-pass radiators have the same cooling capacity as two-pass radiators of the same core dimensions"

nope
not true at all
(Willie, I can send you the data as it is your NDA and products)

OK... rephrase... who, as the company adding their badge to the rad, SHOULD know what they're talking about... but even still in answer to "what fan did you use?"... that's just pathetic not being able to divulge which 120mm fan u used to get the c/w rating... altho I've only ever seen JSE give the rad a rating publicly... none of the other rebadgers have bothered coming up with anything other than "here - it's pretty and cheap!" particularly.

Note that the "core" design and dimensions determine the heat rejection capacity of a radiator.

You still have my email addy, Bill.

LOL

Absolutely understood, Marci, most of our frustrations here lie in the premise that we started what was once just a backyard industry serving enthusiast needs.

Most of our companies have evolved its engineering, production systems, designs, and general technology levels only to see the next trading company offer our work for less. But lessons learned.

A friend of ours from Germany mentioned that there are a lot of watercooling companies that have shut down recently. Moreoever, it has been awfully quiet on the development side as well.

I figure that's because no real manufacturer/designer in the community has released anything for the rest to copy. :D

badger badger badger badger badger badger...

Can't believe they closed that thread. What the hell are they afraid of? A fake being exposed? "Umm, I can't divulge that info because I dreamed it up and never really did a test"........... "Oh yeah, that is now my policy".... :rolleyes:

"it has been awfully quiet on the development side as well"
eh ?
brand new line of rads with different features and performance ?
jeez, can't buy no respect 'round here

but I guess thats because the performance is unknown, ok . . . .

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...hl-600x440.gif

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...ss-600x440.gif

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...cw-600x440.gif

That's in Germany, Bill :D

220 is a rather odd size isn't it?

marketing is wonderful
no technical explanation

That is because most don't demand it. Worst is the people that have the oppurtunity to help set it strait end up locking threads..... People are sheep, get them headed in the right direction and they will. Right now they are going the wrong way...

Let's see how quickly this gets locked: http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...93#post4907893

Interesting.
What definition are you using for "C" in "C/W"? (LMTD, pseudo LMTD, MTD, or "in" TD)
Notwithstanding, data for the 120QP appears to suggest that the calculated ~5watt{~lpmxPa/6) of Frictional Heat(discussed here) at ~3.3gpm(12.5 lpm) may adequately explain the down-turn of the curves at low fannage.

Edit :Fixed link, ta Etacovda.

Les - your link is broken for the 120qp -
heres the correct one http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...SS-350x257.gif

As for JSE, well, hes definitely underhanded and in it for the money. - original thread

my opinion of him is pretty low, he strikes out nicely when you ask for test data.

Hi Les
"C", per your preference, is the difference between the coolant inlet temp and the avg fan inlet air temp from 2 sensors 180° apart located in the center of the fan blade area 1/4" from the grille (all tested with grills in place)

to me the downturn at low fannage suggests something completely different, I don't believe the tube velocity is sufficient for appreciable heating