nicozeg,

Hmmm... I'll pick up some SAE30 today and give it a shot. Unless you have another recommendation.

That thing about the water base adhesive could work.

Is something I haven't tried with oil, but I use it a lot when dremeling small parts.

The one I use is UHU STICK, yes, the same thing kids use in school!

First do some light sanding on smooth surfaces, then generously rub the bar on the copper, so it build a good sticky layer. Quickly apply the printed paper and press it on the surface. let it dry a couple minutes. Bonds very hard if you made it OK, and wash out easy with water.

nicozeg,

I will see what works over time, but for now the 3M works long enough to get the blocks done. :dome:

Today's episode is on finishing water passages and #Rotor area cleanup...

First I moved the block to my rotary table so I could get the angled passages milled straight...

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0167.jpg

Here I've finished the long taper passage into the #Rotor section...

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0168.jpghttp://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0169.jpg

Here I've completed the exit side of the #Rotor section... taper is quicker, but this is after the #Rotor section, so it's not as vital to have a gradual taper.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0170.jpg

This shows the use of a 1/16" endmill to create a "connector" passage around the "corners" of the #Rotor grid so that flow is not TOO restricted. :p

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0171.jpg

Side passages are done and most of the #Rotor pins are completed. Only small trimming with a X-Acto knife left to do...

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0172.jpg

Here is a false color image to show the pins a little clearer...

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01.../Dscn0172a.jpg

Completed block... ready for milling on the reverse side for RAM and GPU height and keepouts for the SMCs around the RAM.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0174.jpg

That's about it... until tomorrow then... Cheers! :dome: :p :cool: :D

looking good :)

nice work man, keep it coming :)

definately looking good, whats the outter dimentions of that peice of copper?


Jon

Well, way back at the beginning of this work log I started on the Power supply solution and blew the supply in the course of events.

I ordered another one and they sent me the wrong supply... I called them... they sent me the wrong supply again ... with an RMA for the first wrong one. YEESH!

So I ordered what looked like an identical supply (by Rhycom)... The general layout is the same... but the board is indeed a little different. :(

Two shots of the Rhycom supply with the cover off...

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0175.jpg


http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0176.jpg

Here's a photo comparison of the labels and casing covers... looks like the same actual manufacturer to me. :p

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0180.jpg

After desoldering the Regulator ICs... the first heat sink appears to be almost identical to the one I made for the PowerTek supply... so no modification needed here...

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0183.jpg

The second one's holes were a little different on two of the ICs... so they would mount like this unless I move the holes over...

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0184.jpg

So... that's what I did ... I moved the two holes over 1/4" and tapped them... also... the holes for the mounting screws that go through the board are completely wrong now. I had to drill and tap those as well.

Ultimately this means that my original solution will work... but it will not look as good with all the extra holes in it. I may end up doing a new design down the road, but for now... it's okay.

More to come tomorrow... CHEERS! :D :p :dome:

Ahh you are coming up against the same types of problems I often have, in my experiance The exact same item often isn't the same in layout / design. I had this ages back with my GF3 cooling. The original I used the four smaller holes around the GPU to mount the GPU block, these holes were part of the nvidia reference card layout. Making a replacement, mk 2 Asus cooler, on the new Asus gf3 card, (that was the same model as the first one), these holes were missing!. It's annoying and will make it hard to make any unified product to fit universally.

Had similar to this just now in fitting my 9800 pro cooler to the Asus 9800xt. ok so this is a different card version so it's to be expected but many slight component placement differences on the card, some very subtle even though the cards are the same basic size & layout meant it wasn't a quick swap over. Took me the best part of a day with a dremel to modify the cooler enough to fit including the fact the overall pcb ram chip height was a little less.

Bladerunner did you mention a few pages back or in another thread about antec psus? Im thinking about adding my CWT 550w to my list of things to w/c and its exactly the same as an antec truepower 550w on the insides. Do you know if the layout is good inside?

I have the same thought to water cool my powersupply... and i know i will probobly fry one so i bought 3 at the same time...
if i don't end up using it now... i'll be building another machine in the future and use it then...

I just bought 3 pretty cheep 450 watt PS. only $50 each CDN

Looks good so far...
before you dismatle the PS will you be doing a voltage check accross the heas sinks to see if there is any stray current running through it?

MadHacker,

I already did a check on the aluminum heat sinks and found +4.65 volts on one ... that one had a single IC that didn't have an insulation pad. I simply pulled one and a plastic screw washer from the power supply that died. (Waste not, want not... :D )

On the other heat sink there was an IC without a pad too... but it was completely incased in plastic (i.e. - no metal heat sink tab) so it's insulated already.

I will check the copper "fingers" again before they are attached to the water block.

Well I had an Antec a while back was a 400 watt I think and It was very messy inside. Someone was watercooling a truepower 550 I think recently and it still didn't look the easiest to w/c to me. Other than that I can't comment as I haven't had any others.

A lot depends on what you are trying to do. if you are water-cooling the PSU and intending to have no fans in it or near it then it can be more complex than it appears. One major thing I've learned in my fanless cooling ventures is things that don't get hot or even warm in the slightest of airflow can overheat surprisingly when the forced airflow is taken away.

As PSU's all differ in design and layout, so there's no one definate overall solution or answer, it's something that you will have to discover and cure as you go. My solution, while I accept it may not be the best way to do it, also partly cools the transformer, and I later added cooling for a hot coil and a large ceramic resistor. It still works fine though and has done fanless for over two years now, but water-cooling any PSU shouldn't be taken lightly imo.....

My PSU is quite simular in layout as MMZ_TimeLord's PSU...
since i don't have a mill... i may not make a block the same way...
copper tubing connected to a copper plate sems to work quite well...
at least well enough...
not like i'm overclocking my PSU...

have to keep my eyes open for the hot spots then...
mabe a 40mm fan undervolted to 5 volts will be enough for air flow...
i wonder if you could hear that.

Just drill alot of vent holes in to the PSU casing to get some air flow as hot air tends to rise.
Look at the picture of the watercooled PSU over at http://www.zerofanzone.co.uk
http://www.zerofanzone.co.uk/picture...su/psu_032.jpg

Great job by the way, TimeLord!

EDIT: using the [img.. thingy wasnt a good idea with such a big pic. :rolleyes:

Which components in a psu get hot? How did you test them for heat without shocking your self? take the fans out and see whats hot after 10 mins?

hmm I was just thinking. What about having a sealed copper case and submerge the psu pcb in it using a non conducting liquid and that liquid be cooled by pipes attached to the copper casing.

Basically as long as the main heat producing parts are effectively cooled, (the power fets), other parts aren't likely to seriously overheat quickly. I took the view the transformer could benefit from some cooling help so my table mount helps a little here. The coil I found getting hot later on and there was a few solutions to this, (In my PSU update article on my site). The hot ceramic resistor I found later using a infra red laser temp sensor.

There are also other variables to like what is your coolant temp? / flow rate?, and as previously mentioned each PSU design is different, what may not get hot in PSU design A with no airflow might get red hot in PSU design B with no airflow. Heat rise will work a bit, but it's the wrong way to look at it. In a similar way to heatpipes being a poor overall solution as they both require a significant heat factor to be going on somewhere for anything useful to start happening. I approached it with cooling at source in mind, (fets on a block over the coolant channel), mainly to avoid an in PSU heat up. with the other hot parts I found and cooled as I went it now runs no more than warm under gaming load with no forced airflow anywhere near it. Of course It could die tomorrow due to something I've over looked, no way of knowing for sure...........

Unfortunately this area of modding is still very much "suck it and see" after effectively cooling the obvious areas.

"MMZ>TimeLord skillfully dispatches the thread hijackers and returns to the scheduled flight plan... :D "

I got the water block for the power supply re-drilled and the fingers drilled and tapped in the proper places now. I also used the torch to heat the block and fill the "bad" holes with solder. Not perfect... but better than ugly holes in the wrong place.

Top-Back 3/4 view:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0185.jpg

Top-Front 3/4 view:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0186.jpg

Front:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0187.jpg

One item of note... when I checked the "fingers" after soldering the ICs back in place, there was about 23 volts AC between the two, according to my meter.

Just to be sure, I put a 12V light bulb on it and tried to get it to light up... Nothing... not even a glow. I scratched my head. I grabbed a small LED from my parts bin... I put that across the two "fingers"... NOTHING... not even a glow. Again, I scratched my head.... :shrug: :confused: :mad: :cry: :(

I called a friend of mine who has a degree in electrical engineering... and asked him why it was showing 23V AC on my meter... but wouldn't even run a light bulb or LED.

Here was his answer... "Induced voltage, no usable amperage" ... The light bulb in my head went on at that point. :eek: :rolleyes: :dome: :p

The transformers and ICs in the power supply are mostly dealing with AC voltage and in the 115V range. So the power supply in it's normal course of operation is INDUCING a voltage on both of the fingers. Copper being the better conductor shows a higher voltage than the aluminum heat sinks (they showed only about 7V AC).

So if you are going to water cool a power supply, the heat sinks are indeed isolated and you see AC voltage on them... it's INDUCED.

Anyhoo... now just to chop up the old outer casing to permit the water block and pipes to protrude and I will have a finished water cooled 550W power supply. ( I will keep the fan and just run it at 5 volts so as not to over heat the coil and transformers. :) )

That's it for today... Cheers!

In ur PSU. You could leave the orriginal fan in and volt mod it so its inaudiable. This should giv enough air flow to any other componets in the PSU cool, as if they were cooled normally, specially as the air flow they would have got wouldn't have been particaually huge, and the chances are, the air would have been fairly warm when it got to them anys ways. Juat an idea.

Pears0,

I believe I covered this already... but here goes.

I will probably end up running the PSU fan at reduced voltage (+5V) with this mod to further reduce noise and still keep air moving.

Tomorrow I should have time to cut up the cover so I can finish the PSU up and move back to my video card solution.

Sorry, must have missed that.

Pears0,

No problem.. *HUGS* :D

JFetting,

In regards to your question in Post # 96 The pattern that I used is 4.5 inches X 4.5 inches. The same as the piece I'm covering today ... the Back block for the All-in-Wonder Radeon 9700 Pro.

Here I've started milling the passages into the curve. I mounted this on my rotary table from the get-go to make it easier. :D

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0188.jpg

Here I have the passages completed ...

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0189.jpg

Tomorrow I will drill the holes for the small cap screws and begin on the back sides of both blocks.

Cheers! :cool:

How deep are you cutting each pass?

An undervolted 80mm would be similar noise and better airflow. 40mm fans really suck.

pippin88,

Not really doing "passes" in the curved area, on the straight spots yes I did (and I took about 1/64" to 1/32" on each pass), but I found that because my mill functions like a drill press I decided to try something new (for me at least).

I drilled one hole at the beginning of the passage on the right (has to pass through to the front side) and then from there moved about 1/32 of an inch into the path and milled straight down, cutting just a little from the side of the starter hole with the endmill.

I found I could remove material MUCH faster this way without the lateral forces and risk of snapping my endmill.

In the end I think it took about the same time, but again less risk to the endmill and easier motion on me as I was not cranking on the table so much. (Just slow ¼ turns to advance the table and pull down on the handle to cut, then back up, rinse and repeat :D )

CNC language that would be called Plunge Roughing :D

Looks like you didnt cut out the whole outline?

dima_y,

Plunge Roughing... yeah ... that's the ticket. :D

I just thought it would be easier on my arm and the endmill. :shrug:

As for the whole outline, yeah, I thought maybe that one bulge was too much... so I left it. (Did the same on the front one too... )

Plunge roughing would be kinda nice, Ill be doing that with small end mills soon I think, or at least Ill give it a try.

MMZ, if you take less than 1/2 the diameter of the end mill in depth, you will be fine, so if you rusing a 1/4" end mill you should be able to take .1" without any problems. Get ahold of some carbide and youll really have fun doing that:)


Jon

Today didn't get as far along as I'd hoped... (social responsibilities ... read:wife :p )

I did get the block halves lined up, drilled and tapped for the four main cap screws... Front half...

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0190.jpg

Back half...

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0191.jpg

I should be ready to mill the back sides of each block where they sandwich the card tomorrow...

The rest of today I spent with my dremel :evilaugh: :D

I cut out the rough opening for the power supply water block to slide in...

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0192.jpg

Here is the rough fit... still need to widen the back area where the copper pipe/tube is at so it will slide in to the mounting points.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mmz_tl_01...s/Dscn0193.jpg

That's all for today... tomorrow we may be removing a large quantity of copper... so bring your shovel. :D :p :dome:

nice work!