the professional world (thermal mgmt, eh ?) is populated by people who know when to keep their mouth shut

its always the same process
- learn the vocabulary
- learn the concepts and principles
- see how others have done it
-> then make your proposal, and be prepared to defend every aspect

this has nothing in common with internet forum posting - behind a nick no less

I know you quoted my post, but to what point ?
it was written in quite that manner to make a point
you did not agree ?
-> or you (still) dislike the presentation ?

I submit the latter, purveyors of mush don't like hard things

No sir Bill. I just quoted your post to be specific as to what I was responding to... I was just trying to be clear as I have multiple lines of discussion running here so it seems. The quote of your post = @BillA. ;) Sorry for the confusion - I am not being facetious or making light of your post.

You have a very strong case in reference to the difference between the professional world and here. I think the rule of appropriate (polite) discourse between one another should be something that can be valued in each situation however.

BTW, I think I have found a new rank for myself at OCF. Purveyor of Mush has a nice ring to it! :D

sorry, I think Skip has preempted that role

polite works, with educated/professional/adult people
so where does that leave X% of the OCF posters

IMOG, I think we are now chasing our tail(s) - but I have enjoyed your input

I have been reading this entire thread, and the subject of this sad debate tends to assume a general discussion about instruction and educational politics.
The word for it is "fast", like "I want to know fast what to do"; like "fast food", everyone wants it for yesterday in preference with a brief summary of the 30 pages of your work.

Seems that with the democratization of the access to some form of knowledge provided by the internet, and pc's, people forgot how to learn in first place.
This leads in my opinion to the relativization of the role of teaching and the importance of knowledge per se.
So, if you like a peticular subject, even if it's not your primary subject of study, why not buying a book?No, I'll just aks these guys....
What do they learn? - nothing.
Scattered concepts about engineering, even if well advised.We get FAST knowledge.
Some people even don't know how to do a research in a library, and you tell them to google?

Of course engineering is a bit more complex than eveyday life advices, but also playing the role of a bright but mad cientist won't cut it.
In my view both the supported views (OC and ProCooling) are like two sides of the same coin.
I don't agree with catering for the young, or not so young, as I don't agree either to the simplistic "go away and don't pester me with stupid/basic questions", by saying - google it.
Why don't you say: research this topic in this sites, and then came back, and I'll sort out your doubts.
If the person in question has some interest for the matter they'll want more (humans are curious), and visit the forum again.

Apart from BiilA leaving the OC forum and the Thermal Management site (these two had a major impact on the present condition of OC, the latter being more important and more disruptive IMO), we know where the current OC policy lead them to.
Turning ProC into a member's club won't be the lottery ticket either.

it may not have been apparent to 'outsiders', but OCF did expend considerable effort to 'accommodate' some of the old fussy types, self included; and this happened several times as a number of us were concerned at the loss of genuine expertise
- many options were discussed, with the final outcome being a "technical discussion' section in the forums
- it did not work, despite several rather interesting protracted discussions -> not because the kids kept jumping in asking questions - instead of observing and perhaps learning - but because they started a ton of 'junk' threads that should have been elsewhere

yes Jag, instant gratification is the hallmark of consumerism - what we do excel at

a bit curious about your Thermal Mgmt site comment, what was disruptive ?

I posted what I now consider to be crap in that section
But never got a rebuttal.
Why?

because it was crap ? (j/k, j/k)
or
insufficient mass to go critical

BTW, where is Since87 ?

good question
Think, he is US not UK
Thought,you have better clue

Where is Aesik ?

another loss
working in CO last I heard

Tecumseh also dropped out
deeppow too, though he and I are in contact (got himself locked down, LOL)

I used the word "disruptive" as in breaking with the status quo ante.
For that matter, since then what new projects (in testing) came up?
I don't mean reviewing new wbs sent by the manufacturers.
We're still relying on your conclusions to debate, and argumentate upon (e.g radiator heat dissipation testing; testing procedures,etc).
That was, as I perceive, the major topic not only for confrontation/discussion but also in getting the attention from other people to join in, and give their input, hence at a given point in time a congregation of valuable users.

deep snow never opened his mouth
Tecumseh did and the words were not stupid

and that "congregation" did attempt to preserve what seemed to be happening,
w/o success;
so those people left

note that what I did was nothing more than the application of known test methods to wbs and rads
quite basic stuff in the 'real world'

Quite, but you did it.

I noticed the absence of some of those people also... I had presumed that RL had swalllowed them - Does anyone know if these people are active anywhere in the community?

@LES: I would say your topic was weakly received because few people use peltiers, fewer than that number of people understand peltiers, and fewer than that number of people care to hash out the details you were attempting to discuss.

Personally, I know that is the sort of stuff I have the background/ability to indulge in, however I fail to see the benefit of partaking. If I wanted to apply a peltier, I know I understand their operation (most important core governing elements) well enough that I could do a sufficient job of it without running the calculations. Perhaps others feel this way also (though doubtful in this forum, or they wouldn't be here).

For me, that goes for a lot of the more deeply technical cooling topics. There is enough good established information already that investing the time on understanding the math/science(psuedo) further would yield no benefits in my application (though I'm sure it will contribute very marginally to the cooling arena in the future). I think the advancements of commercial technology would out-do whatever small advances we can conjure up here (stirling engine for example).

This is why I like OCF, my interest is more in the PC/Networking support side of things. I take a lot from there that I then go and apply directly in my job. A lot of what I've seen there, directly prepared me for what I now get paid to do. Though I like to think so, my motives all along probably haven't been completely altruistic. I've taken a lot from the forums. If I was as altruistic as I'd like to think, I would do what you guys are interested in - little tangible benefit, considerable ongoing time commitment.

@BillA: You slight the value of time. Looking back now, what you applied to PC cooling is probably an incalculable investment of time. Like Jag said you did it, not to mention the fact that few people in the community had the resources, physical or mental, to do it.

Not entirely crap - http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...9570&page=3&pp

I assume the answer to my first question is "NO, they aren't active elsewhere".

Aesik - don't know, but he dissapeared before (note the gap between his 2 articles)
Tecumesch - don't know, last contact at X-mas
deeppow - very active, did you see this ?
http://www.deep-powder.net/OC_Guide/...king_Guide.htm

others ?

well, I just got a 3 day ban from them for telling a member to search, after I answered 6 questions in 6 different posts by the said member, who had 6 stars (over 500 posts)

looks like I've found a new home, procooling....

it's a shame, as ocforums was a great starting point, would have loved to contribute (and was)

Had a big long post written out, went to preview it, my login had timed out, and the net result was it all merged with the void. In retrospect, the "involuntary edit" was probably for the best.

Basically, pHaestus mentioned Something Awful several pages ago. I got to thinking that some of their forums have managed to preserve a desired atmosphere thanks in part to the really forceful presentation of what kind of etiquette is expected. Maybe the same approach could help with some of the worries mentioned in this thread?

Not much here worth paying for really (nothing personal Joe or pH) or at OCF. Something Awful has all that crazy carnage shit people love to see and talk about. Just like when there is an accident on the side of the road. People slow to a crawl to see if any heads are laying in the ditch. Yet when someone is changing a tire they don't bother to slow down. You have to have something people are whilling to pay for in order to pull that off. How many people are going to pay for stuff they can find on any of the 1,000's of Tech sites with a water cooling forum? pH reviews maybe some of the best on the net but the average reader doesn't know that and isn't going to pay for it. Cooling a PC just isn't pay per view material IMO.

Feel free to give it a shot though.

Honestly I wouldn't pay to view this site nor pay again if I got banned.

I assume he meant more "ban people for ****ing up" than "pay to read". And JayDee you'd be surprised at how many people sent $10-50 via Paypal for test equipment. There are a fair number of readers of this site that have ponied up money to improve the reviews at least.

Well now that I think about I was banned here once. I sure the hell wouldn't have paid to get unbanned. So maybe it would work depending on your and Joe's sense of value to me as a member here compared to my sometimes out of control temper.

They gave you money because they feel your competent and generally motivated to do an excellent job in your work and trusted you enough to know the money would be spent on the parts and not drinking and drug habits. Not an easy rep to get. Same reason I still spend a lot of money to make DIY blocks to send to you for testing. Would I pay for that testing? I doubt it being I don't even use the blocks I make.

I wonder how many people would buy an access to this site knowing the information is more accurate than others. Might be an interesting poll/topic to start.

Okay, so maybe my huge-o initial comment would've been better after all.

I certainly wasn't talking about the $10 fee for joining SA, and I wasn't really talking about the ban-happy mods either.

Most of the "serious" forums at Something Awful have obvious rules. There's a big, stickied post with hard and fast rules and a FAQ to follow them sitting atop all the other threads. Sometimes more than one. Debate & Discussion (the "serious" debate forum) has three "READ THIS FIRST, DAMMIT!"-esque threads stickied right now.

If someone has obviously skipped them and posted something irritating, the worst that usually happens to them is that they get a few replies that say something to the effect of "read the rules/faq, moron", accompanied by a link to the relevant rule/entry they didn't read. Most people don't get banned unless they're really disruptive (racism, gratuitous trolling) or flagrantly break a specific rule (don't post about how drunk you are, don't ask for warez). I think that this cuts down significantly on the forum drama and repeat threads, and might be beneficial here at procooling. I'd write a FAQ myself, but I haven't made enough mistakes to be an expert. ;)

Off topic, I really love the SA community, and feel I should offer a counterpoint to jaydee here. There's more to Something Awul than just the General Bullshit and FYAD forums. I'm a big fan of Creative Convention and ADTRW (anime forum), personally.

Not arguing with that, but that isn't what got most of them there in the first place. Problem with sticky rules is no one reads them until they already messed up and are pointed to them.