New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Ok I am rebuilding my comp to the following spec:

Opty 175
DFI Nf4 SLI-DR Expert
2x BFG 7800GTX OC 512MB
Etc..

I have a Dual 120mm Rad in it now with a swiftech 650 to be changed to a 655.

I am wondering what the best option for cooling this beast would be?

Two loops? One Loop? Ideas?

Keep in mind that I am keeping my current Rad and only really have room for another single Rad.

I have read about running two loops but only one rad with two pumps. Any thoughts or Ideas?

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Two loops is never better than one. Its just more complicated.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Yeah,

But what about being able to remove all that heat from the two vid cards and the cpu/chipset?

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Also, I have room for another pump and single 120mm Rad.

I would presume that having two loops with two pumps and two rads would certainly cool better than one loop with one pump and rad?

Am I mistaken here?

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Take a cpu only loop and add more blocks to it and it will impact performance. ie flow reduction due to additional resistance, and increases in cpu temp due to adding more heat to the loop. In this case putting the additional blocks into a second loop instead will maintain the performance of the first, so overall it should be better. Then there is the benefit of increased overall heat transfer area with the second rad.

Very few have the room for this option so its rare. If you decide to go ahead please report back on your results.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Well I have a Lian Li PC75 that has the dual 120mm rad mounted at the top of the case. If I were to add another loop, the only thing I have room for is a single 120mm at the bottom front of the case.

Should I put the CPU/Chipset on the single 120mm or the dual 512GTXs?

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

You look into getting pa160 or selling old dual 120 and getting a single pa120.3?
I assume you got an sli setup with dual 7800 gtx with waterblocks you can afford a better rad setup instead of being a cheap miser.

If you were smart, but your not (you have sli 7800gtx), you would ditch the second 7800 gtx.

Again so many people read these dumb reviews from hexus, hardocp, anandtech, and toms hardware on sli 7800 gtx and sli gets the most framrates highest 3dmark2005 scores etc.....
They don't even realize that $400-$500 piece of hardware isn't doing much for them right now. You ain't even registering the extra framerates in your brain unless you run all the settings to the max and have like a 21 inch monitor and getting fps below 80. If you are getting fps below 80 than just lower the settings because you can't even see the little jagged line in the background unless its' freezed framed.......

I don't know how many people I have to tell them this:hammer:

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

While I thank you for your advice, I do not quite understand why you feel the need to insult my intelligence. I did not ask you for your opinion on what "my" system should consit of other than the cooling for my components. If you must know, I am running at 1920x1200 with a 24" LCD, but thanks for telling me how the quality of "my" gameplay experience should be and what "your" brain registers as acceptable.

Also, since when is a dual 120mm Rad considered a cheap miser set up? I do not think I really have room for a triple 120mm Rad, but if I did, would that be enough to cool all that "useless" stuff I am trying to cool in my case in one loop?

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

so, you're complaining about the fact that he has the money to buy two 7800gtx ... ? I know the second card doesn't do much, but if I had the money i'd buy them too. And a 24" Eizo . :D

anyway, i think you should keep everything in one loop, add the second rad.
better for space, routing cables and tubes, and should deal well enough with the heat.
if not, add beefy fans! :)

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

I mean thats like making fun of someone because they own a Porsche 911 GT2 or something... "above 65Mph you are speeding anyway, so why have it? Its just a waste of money"

Rice, why have internet when you can just talk to people? I mean thats a viable form of communication... why spend money on the internet? Or lights for that matter when candles do just as good...

Please, in a forum about high end cooling, you try to talk about conservative reason... not really the place for that.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

A separate loop done properly will decrease the temps on your primary (CPU) loop. Properly assumes good components, good tubing management, good airflow and the rest.

Whether all that gear will improve you end-user gaming experience is irrelevant, imo. Will it? It wouldn't for me. But, if I had some time and money, I'd do it too. Why not? Sounds like fun!

Let us know how it turns out, please.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

So if I was going to run one loop with a Triple 120mm Rad should that be enough to remove all the heat from the cards and CPU?

Also, should I decide to go with two loops which loop should get the CPU versuse the two vid cards?

CPU on Dual 120mm and Vid Cards on single 120mm or vice versa?

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Its still a trade off between fan noise and cooling capacity.

Still, more rad surface area is better.

What about having 2 rads in the same loop? Its not as sexy as 2 whole loops but it will increase your cooling capacity.

-----

If you are going split loops, put the CPU on the single and the VCs on the dual.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Ok so what would be the best routing method then if I were going to use only one pump?

pump ->top rad -> cpu ->bottom rad ->GPU - > GPU ->PUMP


http://www.ughq.com/images/watercool.JPG

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Dont complicate this!! Just route the tubing the easiest way possible with the fewest major bends. The order of the placement will have VERY little impact on the cooling capacity. I'd go pump>dual rad>CPU>GPU1>GPU2>single rad>Pump judging by your picture.

In actuality, you shouldnt need that extra 120mm radiator at the bottom. I'm fairly certain a dual 120mm BIP would suffice for your system.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

big res>665(pump)>cpublock> 240 rad >big res
big res>650(pump)>gpu1 >gpu2> 120 rad > big res

as to not have the head loss on your "main" pump from gpu blocks (just an idea)

goodluck with rebuild

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

I have a Thermochill 120.2 Up there now. I plan on keeping that as it is since it has treated me so well.

I think temps are on the high side for my W/C now so I am thinking that the higher wattage Opteron with dual GTX's will put out too much heat for just one 120mm Rad.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult your intelligence, kinda out of hand. For all I know you could be very smart.
Should've questioned your sensibility instead and in a more congenial and gentle manner. I just what i read was :mad: and overreacted

It's was like a week ago a saw an old man with all white hair driving down newport in a new M5 and was going on the freeway 50 mph when everyone was like going 65 or faster.....:cry:

I even read the thread wrong and thought he meant 7800gtx 256 mb, not the 512 mb that is infinitely more powerful.
Look at the single card performance and then compare to SLI.

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2607&p=9
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2607&p=3

Look at power consumption. How much heat do you think the card is putting off?
Now double that with the SLI.
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2607&p=2

Did you even see them mention overclock in the entire article? No. The card is so powerful it doesn't need to. If you overclock expect about 10 fps for a single card. I read people saying the cpu was the limiting factor on a SINGLE CARD, not even SLI.
Also from what I heard, the new drivers will help even more.

If i was overreacting, then excuse me.:(
I made my case now, hopefully you will consider it. I rather you make the right decision then me bash you.

From the specs I gave you, don't expect that single rad and double rad to be enough. Sell both rads and get a pa120.3 and it will make life easier.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

expect 500+ watts from both cards

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

I've seen a number of reviews that show the full system DRAW for a SLI 512M system at around 400 to 450W.

I would be hard to generate 500W of heat from the cards alone if its only drawing 450W under load.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Eh? I think that your facts were perfectly fine, ricecrispi. It was just your harshness toward the OP. I don't really think that saying both cards are putting out 500+ watts is helpful.

Will his noticeable performance improve (i.e. actual and measureable end-user experience while gaming)? Probably not for most games.

Will his noise increase? Probably so.

Is it a cost-effective upgrade? Probably not.

Will he get a higher CPU overclock? Maybe.

BUT! And here's the kicker. I don't get the impression he's doing this because frame rates suck in Quake 2 (or insert some other old game). If he's at all like some of the rest of us, he enjoys tinkering or he would have gotten a Dell.

So, the actual metric for success is probably not just reaching a consistent 60 fps for frame fusion. He probably finds low temps neat, and tinkering with a water system fun as well. pHaestus wanted a 6600GT SLI rig just because it looks neat watercooled in tandem. Is that bad? Sure wasn't a cost effective idea. If you want cost effective, just wait 6-12 months and get things at half price!

Now, can you say why any of his equipment is actually bad or could be improved upon?

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

I don't see adding one card as adding over 200W of power consumption. I bet realistically the system will draw about 400-450W Peak.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Nothing I am doing is cost effective here :D But then again you only live once and won't it make life more interesting? Also, yes I love to tinker and I always had the motto that if yer gonna do it right, then why not overkill it.

Why am I worried about all of this in the first place?

Well for one I want to get the max O/C out of my CPU since that is the limiting factor here. I also want to W/C my cards for two reasons: 1) Because I just like to keep em cool and 2) It's damn sexy!

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

That may just be the motto of the ProCooling regulars. Although some are really excited just by the thermodynamics, and that's fine too.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

I am not sure that power consumption equals heat output to the loop. I bet if anything its around half or 3/4.

Ok so because the guy in the M5 drives slow means that I should also? Like wtf man, I am supposed to conform to some standard on a website just because they say it's not necessary? Yeah its overkill and you know what..."Who Gives a Shit!"

This whole godamn website is about overkill and you are sitting here trying to preach to me about making the "right" decision. Maybe the right decision for you is to stop trolling my thread instead of posting useless off topic comments that have no validation other than your own convoluted perception of what is acceptable.

Don't preach gospel to me when we are both sitting in a brothel!

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

First off, while I do love how the general opinion is that a 7800GTX 512M SLI is "overkill" and "won't help" is based on nothing more than a limited experience with gaming.

I have both a 6800GT SLI rig AND a 7800GT SLI rig. Enough? No. Why? Cod2. Even with a tweaked 7800GT SLI system (venice core 3200+ running at 2.65ghz, 2gigs of ram @ 222 Mhz 2-3-3-5 2T) and getting about 14000 3DM05 I still can't run it at 1680 x 1050 on my dell 2005FP with more than about 1/2 the options on high.

With the 6800GTs I can barely run that at 1024 x 768 w/ the same settings.

So, first off, this uber system IS relevent now. And the new doom3 based engines need even MORE power for outdoor scenes. Same story w/ X3: The Reunion.

---------------------------------

With regards to little things like heat and power consumption.

Most of what I read points to around 450 to 500W total system power consumption under load and with no OC. Worst case, take that to 600W underload overvolted and OCed.

Even figuring 85% converted to heat thats only 510W in the worst case.

Without randomly throwing around radiator sizes, shouldn't be start by asking fans and CFMs so we can get a general idea about how much surface area he'll need to dissipate that much heat?

I know I've been lurking here as of late but what happened to INTELLIGENT discussion about cooling and not just random bullshit of frozen flames???

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Thank you man for bringing this up! I usually do most of my forum browsing at the [H] but have heard this is the place for W/C advice. Was I wrong to assume this?

I am looking for more than the average cookie cutter response about this rad is more l337 than this one. I've read some of the articles and posts here over the years and was really hoping for more of an analytical approach to my questions.

My goal is to do this up right but I am not knowledgeable enough to make it happen without help. I was watercooling the system i just sold to pay for the upgrade, but that is small potatoes compared to how much power this new one is outputting.

So, if anyone is interested still. Let's please hear some more information that might help me make this the best solution for my needs.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

Well then Tempus, get 7800 gtx 512 Mb setup and you can run what ever you want.

This is a 7800 gtx 512 MB setup and not old 256 MB. Full load is 275-290 W per card
Old one used 225 watts.

285 Watt x2= 570 X 75% efficiency~ 427 Watts from both cards.
+ 115 watts from Opt
~ 542 watts in the loop.
Remove 50 watts from the loop because you are using mcw55 so it doesn't cool any ram. 500watt loop

Dual rads from swiftech is rated at max 350 watts dissipation. Want more info, look at their site. I don't know what rad or blocks you are using because you didn't list them.

Want better temps.
Pa120.2 and pa120.3 might get better temps. No conclusive data yet. Do a search by a thread done my Marci on the thermochill rads for more info.

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

As per your article: "These power numbers are measured at the wall before the PSU. "

So the card is not pulling that much power but the whole system. And according to what I read the only reason they could not measure the SLI set-up is because they were using two power supplies to run the cards themselves due to circuit breaker issues on their old wiring.

They are also using an FX57 which i believe is around 100W chip. Take into account Ram and everything else and I bet the video card is actually drawing about 150W tops under full load.

Also,

Now that you have posted something I can actually put my head around I have a question for you. I currently have the Thermochill 120.2 which is rated for how much? And if I add another 120mm Rad as per my picture what should I expect my total system Heat dissipation to be and which fans should I use for best noise/performance ratio?

Re: New High End Build...Two Loops?
 

the radiators are "rated" to a maximum value wich is usually bogus, because the relevant variables are... variable on different setups :).
it will depend on water temperature at it's intake , ambient temperatures and aiflow through it, and of course, surface area.
basically i'm saying you'll have to test it with different setups.
still say keep one loop, and add the second radiator to it.
as far as fan's go :