Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

I've been loosely following the Apogee megathread, so I thought it pertinent.

For those of you who've popped your IHS (or 'idiot handling shield', as I've heard it affectionately referred to), what did you get from it?
Lower reported temps (as reported in bios or MBM, yeah yeah), higher stable overclocks, both or nothing?

Reply in thread with your cpu and cooling and what changes you experienced temp/OC wise.

Speaking from personal experience, I once popped the top off a Tualatin Celeron. My peak load temps (reported in MBM for what that's worth) dropped by 2C but it did not help my OC at all.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

quite pertinent, but unfortunately I cant vote as my CPU came IHSless... (Athlon XP still hehe)

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

Both cases (read: I've done it twice) it was with a Pentium 4 2.8E (week 23 and 37 malay, if I remember correctly). Overclock went from 3.4 to 4.0 on the first one (old BIP, MCW5000, hydor L-20) and from 4.0 to 4.2 on the second one (Dtek WW, MCP350, BIP3). Temps dropped a lot on the first (like 8c) and not much on the second (like 3C). My temps are also via MBM. Take them for what they are worth.

EDIT: spelling

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

Took the lid off of three a64's.
Clawhammer 3500, winnie 3200, opty 148. All of them had substantial temp drop and mild overclock increase...

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

Have done it to 3 XP64's. In all cases achieved lower temps and increased overclocks, although the amount of improvement varied on a case-by-case basis. All fell within 2-4C gains, and 100-200MHz improvements.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

XP64?

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

AMD 64-bit CPU's. Socket 939 ones.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

Ok, I was confused, though I was pretty sure I knew what you were talking about. Have never seen the term XP64 in AMD docs or or enthusiast speak before.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

Are the cores brittle? I did it on my Sempron64 seems to be brittle (Gained lower temps but not able to see OC benefits, don't have OC mobo). The XP socket 462 core seems to be stronger.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

2 & 3... 10 A64s so far and counting - same results for all... one or two saw towards 6 degree gains... all achieved "significantly" higher stable clock (100Mhz+)

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

It would be useful if people said exactly what cpu it is A64 newcastle etc. and exact as you can do temprature drops.

Sorry to be abit nitpicky but given enough results you could then start calcultating C/W for the IHS easily.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

based on which watts?

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

A punt guess of cpu (rough but near enough). Admittly its flawed but for a little work you should be able to extrapolate some values out, that are near enough. Besides its always good to non dimensionalise things to see if there is a nice relationship.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

Thanks for the replies. To throw in another variable for those who improved their OCs:
Did it clock higher at the same voltage as before IHS removal, or did the temp drop incite you to throw more Vcore at it?


FWIW, when I asked this question at Hardforum (not a formal poll) and the one or two replies I got showed OC gains in the scale of 30-40MHz. The replies here are much more positive. I'm guessing procooling folks have better cooling rigs, and probably all watercool.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

30-40MHz is about accurate at same vcore... extra voltage previously (with IHS) caused instability / no gains. Without IHS and with extra vcore that now doesn't cause instability, 100Mhz+ (very loosely summarised - anecdotal as bill would put it :D )

Mainly Clawhammers, Venice and SanDiego from my exp... not done any newcastles or semprons... results easily demonstratable with an FX tho usually...

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

My winnie only gained around 40mhz. But the Venus core and the Clawhammer increased mildly around 100mhz each, using more vcore.

For my opty though I kept clock the same and dropped vcore from 1.61 to 1.57.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

On the 4 or 5 P4's (Northwoods) that I removed the IHS i lost about 5C on average each time. The interesting fact, is that I had a board (Abit IC7) which read the diode of the CPU and did a fairly good job. It was always claimed the Abit's read high, whatever. Anyway, I had in my possesion a WW, Cascade, Cascade SS and a modded TC-4 to fit 478. With the IHS on on one particular CPU, I mounted each and every one of said blocks. Not just once or twice, but at least 3 mounts of each. Guess what? Every single block registered the same exact temp, it made no difference whatsoever. The flip side to this excercise was the removal of the IHS and remounting each and every block again. Now, without the IHS distinct differences could be accounted for. Without the IHS the TC-4 was somewhere around 4-5C worse than the WW. The cascade better than the WW etc, etc. How could this be? So, if one performed a test with the IHS on, well sure, all blocks will perform the same because the IHS > TIM etc numb the cooling effect considerably. Does this mean the TC-4 is just as good as the Cascade? Hell no.

This is the key to the huge disagreements around here. Some say, test as a real CPU with crap IHS. I say doing so will get us no where. Just look at Lee's test, it proves the point 100%, I don't see how everyone can't see that. I will say that Intel's IHS > TIM is far superior now to AMD's. How much so I can't say because I can't get the damn thing off, that is how well it is affixed. Most of you know that taking it off means ripping the core in two. To those that think testing on sims is a waste of time, I would suggest that testing with an IHS to judge WB performance is just plain silly. I think it is fair to say that if you are using an AMD IHS then just about ANY block will perform the same, from a Maze 3 or 4 to the Apogee to the Storm. Test directly to the heat source, and it creates a clear picture on how the block actually cools.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

Agree 100%...

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

Scott - NICE post. also agree.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

agreed also
removed IHS on 2 4400x2, 1 ran 7c cooler (but not faster than with IHS), second ran with nerfed mem controller (dual channel RAM caused no boot, single stick worked) 6c cooler, 300 MHZ faster than with IHS
removed IHS on a P4 Northwood, ran 4c cooler & 150 MHz faster than with IHS

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

So IHS is only for protecting the cores from cracking & to assure it has good contact w/ HSF?

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

Yes to the first part, to protect only, that is it's only purpose.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

Possibly quibbling, but is it feasible that the IHS could serve as a 'heat spreader' when topped with a cheap aluminum retail heatsink? I'd guess the interface between the core and copper/nickel IHS is better than what you'd get from the core through a layer of wax to a grooved, non-flat slab of Al.

Once you're using either a high end flat-copper based HSF or a good WB, the IHS works as a 'cpu condom'....protects but limits sensitivity. :)

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

When I popped the IHS lower temps prompted higher volts (.01 or so). Some of my gains appear to be more substantial than the others, though mine were chips infamous for their OC headroom.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

I have two AMDs I'm popping the IHS cherry this winter.

I got a winny 939 and venice 939 and 3200 DTR mobile with not IHS. I would like to see how performance improves with no IHS because they both get below average overclocks and moderately temps.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

I had opt170 at 2.8ghz 1.5v with Ihs on 44-45c, without Ihs 2.9ghz 1.55v 38-40c

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

The positive feedback here (and BOTH kids being asleep at the same time) led me to pop my top.
Behold a naked Sempron. I'm bedding in the Artic Silver now, but Smart guardian is only showing a 1C drop so far. It's a fresh application of Artic Silver 1 (yes, one....my tube has lasted this long).

I'll mess around and post any updates here once the temps settle in and I can push the OC.

FWIW, I used to see 35-38C at load (reported in SmartGuardian), depending on ambient, at 1.67Vcore, 2600MHz.
It's an E6 .09 micron Sempron 2800+.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

make sure the cam-block of your ZIF socket isnt creating a bad mount:
http://www.overclockers.com/tips1197/

i had no problem with a top-less Venice in my DFI Ultra-D
but
my MSI Neo-2's cam-block DID interfer...

EDIT:

OC's front page is having some problems...:(
hit "STOP" right after page is loaded to not get memory error.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

Yeah I checked that. I was able to slip a fairly thick piece of paper under the block right up to the side of the core. I may need a remount or simply another half turn or so on the screws.

It's possible Smartguardian is not giving me diode temps.....the cpu temp in bios is 24C, while 'system 1' in SG is 33C. SisoftSandra lists it as 33C as well.

Re: Poll: Removed your IHS? What did it get you?
 

These are exactly the reasons and circumstances under which the use of IHS's were originally justified in technical white papers floating around 6-7 years ago.

Yes, with the advent of better heatsinks, the original presumptions of shonky aluminium items is nowadays far less relevent. Protection is about the only reason left that is still valid.