Not happy with my W/C temps
 

Hi,

I'm cooling with a MAZE2 an Eheim 1048 which gives me a flowrate of 43gph. I have a leviathon heater core that is so oversized that it isn't even a factor. My CPU pushes about 112W of heat. Now my water res temp is 12C and my CPU temp is 29C. COme Summer, I'll have an unstable computer. Any possibility I could get the CPU core to within 7C of the water temp? Shouldn't I be seeing better temps than these? I'm positive that my WB is seated properly and I see a perfect imprint of my CPU when I remove it, but the WB always feels cold to the touch when I'm running full load. The waterblock does have a few minor scratches. My pump connects directly to the res and to the radiator.

These are the next steps I'm contemplating:

1. Upgrade to Eheim 1250.
2. Lap my block with 600 grit paper.
3. Try a different water block (Z4/sidewinder)
4. Upgrade to 1/2" from 3/8".

It seems like I'm not getting good heat transfer from my CPU to the water. Any suggestions about which of these three steps would improve cooling more. Is the base of the MAZE2 too thick?

Thanks!

Rob

the maze2 is not your problem, it's a good block. Neither is your radiator.

your flow rates might be a problem, have you tried applying your AS2 very thin? Lastly, your mobo temp might just be way off.

other than that, there isn't too much that can be wrong really

Thank you brad! That's really helpful to know. I purchased a MagDrive 3, and I'm going to give that a shot. I would have bought the 1250, but my local store didn't have them in stock. I'll post my results when I get the fittings for this pump.

--Rob

OK, my magdrive 3 easily doubled my water flow. It's probably around 90gph. My CPU temp dropped about 1C.


I do have one more question. Isn't it true that it doesn't make any difference how thick one applies thermal grease? If the block is properly seated, then the excess AS will squirt out the sides. I mean, it's better to apply a thin layer so that you won't have AS all over the CPU die, but it doesn't affect the thermal transfer properties if the HSF/WB is seated level with adequate pressure. Comments?

Thanks for your help

if it is too thick then most of it will go out the sides, but not all of it will, I'd say quite a bit would stay in there, which couldn't be too good. just remount it again a couple of times

I personally think the problem may be related to either a lack of pressure on the core or the water block may need to be lapped. You should get 10C delta between coolant temp and core temp. I am getting 15C with a 40% antifreeze coolant and a flow rate of 1.5L/min (18gal/hour).

when you lap your block, do it on a sheet of glass, as glass tends to be pretty flat. U will kow when you have a flat bottom, when U can spray some wd 40 on the bottom of the block, and put it bottom down on the glass, and it becomes difficult to remove.


Also when applying any kind of thermo goo, put your hand in a plastic sandwich bag and use your finger tip to smear it around, Put it on the block, not the Core. U want it to be almost see thrue. Then remount.

Good luck my friend. Also make sure there is nothing in the way of the air path when air is being PULLED into your rad. And hopefully U are ducting the air some how, setting your fan/fans about 1 inch away from the rad. Ohh and make sure none of your hoses are getting kinked anywhere, and get all the air out of the system, the maze2 block is good for storing air inside. I would have your pump running, and with the block in your hand, turn it and smack the sides with your hand, to get any trapped air bubbles out. Do this for 10-30 minutes. shake it, almost be violent with it. but dont scratch the bottom.

I've tried using a very thin layer on the block alone, and that seemed to raise my core temps. I think it must be uneven pressure, or the block needs more lapping. I have the springs fully compressed, and any more tightening might crush the core. The cpu package seems to be flush against the socket. OK, next weekend, it's a new lapping. Thanks again!

good temps
 

Thoses are pretty good temps of course this depends on what kind of processor you are using. :rolleyes: You can get a couple of degrees betterdepending on the position of the heatercore and if you use a reservoir or not. A stronger fan might help also. This is about all the advie I can give you I hope it helps:shrug:

Thanks feliberti! Unfortunately, my problem is not getting heat out of the water. My water temp is 15C. My problem is getting heat from the CPU to the water.

I saw your bong pics on hardforum. Very cool!

How did you get a 15C water temp?

I live in San Francisco, and it cold this Winter!

:D

I live in Spokane WA and it is doing this:

http://www.dorrellco.com/noonsnow.jpg

Already got over an inch. The only way I can get my water temp below room temp is to put the rad in the window and blow cold outside air through it. I gave that up when the ave daily temp got to be 0C or lower.:D

If your water temp is 15C your CPU should be no more than 8C over that with a DD Maze 2.

You live in overclocking heaven, jaydee! I found that my MAZE2 is fairly concave in the middle. I did a little lapping tonight, but I'm going to need a lot of sandpaper to get this sucker perfectly flat.

Eagerly awaiting your new block. Maybe you can lap it for me, and raise the price accordingly:)

schoolie,
If done right U wont need that much paper. Use good masking tape and tape the paper to a pane of glass, a mirror or something. Then use very little water to wet the paper. and start lapping. if done without alot of force, and smooth motions, U will get good results without tearing the paper. make sure U are using wet/dry paper as well.

Start with a higher grit and step your way to 600.

Good luck

If I ever sold my blocks they will come lapped. It isn't that hard, especially with a mill and then a little sandpaper.

I wonder why that one you got is like that? it usually comes pretty good right from the metal supplier. It should have been at least machine laped before it was sent. maybe that is why a few people are having bad luck with them.

You say that now jay, but when it comes time to do 50 of them, you will see that lapping 50 blocks is way no fun!

what I did was take them to the machine shop and use a fly cutter to machine them flat. and left lapping up to the end user, because alot of people have different opinions about the gritts.

Good point!!! I was thinking of a fly cutter myself. I seen one made for my mill but it is like $60.

the copper and Al I got on my last order was in great shape. It was very flat from the factory. In fact I just hit this new block with a little 400 and 600grit and that was it. Took a few minutes. I think you are right aboutmaking them lap it them selfs. maybe throw in a cheap flyer on how to do it with the blocks

Jay, I dont know if U know about this site or not, but here is a good link
http://www.spillage.net/

hey make a metal slabber ( a shell mill) and one that uses incerts, man would I love to have one of them!

just thought I would share.

Cool I will look over that tomorrow!!!

I'd imagine the aluminium or copper blocks would be fairly flat already though, i personally wouldn't bother, saying the blocks aren't lapped, as they are resonably flat, and it isn't worth the extra cost for you to lap them all

check seating
 

check the seating of your block make sure that you are tightening across the block (like an x) this way you can get a better seating. Lapping helps a lot too. Hey fixitt I have been watching make your blocks since way bacvk in the beginning when you were sellign them at the hardforum I have been wanting to buy one but the waiting time is a killer. Is it any better now? LMK as I would eagerly buy one. Especially if you have a video chipset one as I am thinknig of bong cooling my radeon 8500 after a volt mod. :evilaugh:

Hate to beat a dead horse, but still no joy. I've lapped my block to 600 grit, increased my flow rate to 90gph, reseated with a lot of ASIII, reseated with a thin film of ASIII. However my core temp is 31C @load, 26C idle, and my ambient temp is 17C and my res temp is 17C. I'm running an AXP 2000+ at 1.921GHZ, with Vcore=2.08V. Is it possible that this sucker is just throwing off a lot of heat? It gets unstable at 35C, and I mean 35C measured by my KR7A thermistor. I have my MAZE2 tightened way down, and the CPU leaves a perfect imprint on the bottom. Arrrgh! What the heck am I doing wrong? Frustrating part is I'm getting worse temps now! Thanks for letting me vent:)

--Rob

17C -> 31C is seriously good, you won't get much better than that

Thanks Brad. Why are some people getting 10C over ambient with Vcore=2.05V? I wish I could go TEC, but electricity is too expensive here:)

BTW, I tried the Dtek sidewinder, this weekend. I far as I could tell, the performance was comparable to the MAZE2. I also tried the Z4 with 1/2" fittings, but that was not a good experience. My temps were about 3-4C higher with the Z4. Who knows, maybe I did something wrong. I'm sending the Z4 to Jaydee so he can test it.

Flowrate most likely isn't your issue. Flow is highly overrated and there have been absolutely zero formal tests showing a lot of flow rates vs. CPU temperatures... but it is good that your temperature has improved. Maybe you've found a flowrate sweet spot. Imagine a curve like y=-(x^2). let x = flowrate and y = efficiency. There is a sweet spot at the top of the curve. Once you push flow too hard, efficiency drops off. Same as if you don't push enough. It looks like you've gotten a bit closer to the sweet spot.

First, think of the theory behind heat transfer. The best possible heat transfer you could have would be to have absolutely zero thermal paste and two theoretically, perfectly, mathematically flat surfaces right on top of eachother. however, we know that there are microflaws within the surface of metals, regardless of how smooth we try to make them. Thermal paste is just designed to fill in the inefficiencies. If you put a lot of thermal paste on, you run a few risks. The first is the possibility of air bubbles getting trapped. As you compress the block down, air can get caught in between all the paste and mar your thermal transfer slightly (granted... these are SMALL pockets of air). Second of all, once again, if ALL the excess paste came out that would be great, but in reality, some will hang under there and cause a VERY slightly non flat bond between the CPU and waterblock. So that's why too much is bad. Follow the instructions on the AS site for best results.
Because the temp readings you are getting on a non-intel board are currently WRONG. You need to wire a thermal diode circuit or wait for the new mobos to get a temp reading. Your temp could be like 3 - 10 degrees off for all you know. For all you know, your CPU temps are much better than you think.

Also some boards have a minimum temp they are allowed to read, since you can't get less than x with a hsf then why would someone need to read temps less than x? ;']
I saw on the web somewhere that someone pelted a socket thermistor (got frost forming on it) and it still reaad 31C.

Edward

based on your original post ambient=12 load=27 So the delta has decreased by 1C. Are you using the following flow res - pump - radiator - cpu - res?
Also recommend lapping with 1000+ grit and polishing with toothpaste. I don't know if you are going to improve on this with the kind of vcore you are using.

Most people like myself that are getting 10C over water temp do not have the the XP2000+@1921gigs!!! Be very happy with that temp, at those setting, with that CPU!!! That is a good OC aswell.

If I get that Z4 by Friday I will have my results up by Sunday. I am going out of town Monday the 18th for a bout 5-7 days so I will ship it back to you when I get back unless I have it and am through with it by Saturday.

You have to remember that some motherboard sensors won't touch the CPU core at all. Those look like good temps to me, but again it is unknown what the actual temp is. As far as flow rates with the Maze2, I find that anything over 1.1 GPM flow rate doesn't improve performance.