cheaper alternative to water wetter for killing bugs w/out a decrease in performance?
 

Hi,

I'm looking for an altertative agent to put in my water other than water wetter just to prevent bugs and algae from growing. I also want something that will not decrease the performance of the heat transfer of the water (i.e. - no prestone).

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

rubbing alcohol. thats what i use, it wont help corosion tho.... just to let you know..

slows down corosion also?
 

thanks for your reply, but forgot to mention, i'd like for it to slow down corosion as well. is there such a thing out there? is everyone using water wetter? better start buying reline stock.

how about if i just use a *little* bit of prestone in the water... say 1 to 30 ratio to kill algae and prevent corosion. will that really affect my performance that much?

brennan:

If your system is made out of all copper or all aluminum components then you shouldnt have to worry about corrosion.

I personally am beginning to get tired of WaterWetter becuase of the residue that it is leaving on my tubes and block. The smell is not all that bad but probably wouldnt hurt to go away either.

I was planning on going to straight distilled water and just make sure to change it out maybe once a month or every two months. It does take some time for the critters alge to grow and changing the watter should do the trick.

BTW I think I heard somewhere that WW doesnt inhibit growth of alge, only corrosion. Please someone correct me if I am wrong on this.

rubbing alcohol... is that 70% ethanole?
do you just add it into water? (what concetration?)

thx

stupid me...

what I meant is do you just flush the system with alcohol, then run it with water or you add alcohol into the system...

stupid, stupid, stupid non native english speaker me...

I'm also planning to use alcohol/ethanol in my system against alges instead of WaterWetter, but won't alcohol affect my tygon tubes after a while?

isporal... i just added a few little bit to my lines... hehe i dont know how much, but it foams for a while...

the algea don't form a big problem for me. i add a little radiator protector stuff (not waterwetter, is very hard to come by) a few drops of dishwashing stuff (swiftech states that to be good to decrease water surface tension), and some bleech. maybe that isn't too good for my temps, but i'm not noticing it anyway. some of my tubes are xposed to light, and after 3 months no sign of green stuff.

Isopropanol. Add 1-2 tablespoons per Liter of water. Toss in a cup of sugar, 2 tsp of vanilla, and 1 bag Toll House chocolate chips ... oh, sorry. For corrosion protection, you need water wetter, hyperlube, or purple ice. For algae/bug use alone, you can use rubbing alcohol/isopropanol. Sorry, but I think in a system with dissimilar metals (Cu/Al), you're better off spending the ten bucks and saving yourself the grief of reboring your block and unplugging your radiator. You either spend money on the additive or you spend it on the repairs (possibly of your system when the block ends up plugged): you make the call. Nobody said that running a decent WC system was free. Alcohol of any type (meth-/eth-/isoprop- anol) will NOT protect you from corrosion.

(No flame intended, just stating my observations).

Don't forget that WW also helps lower temps by 'breaking' the surface tension of the H20, it ain't just to slow corrosion. AntiFreeze kills of algae...

MadDogMe is right. Can't believe I forgot about that part.

<self abuse>Vigorously pounds head against desk</self abuse>

WW increases system performance in a way that the -hol's won't. Just one more thing to think about.

I never did get much of an answer on this last time I posted it, so I'll mention it again here since it's kinda related. As soon as I can get my hands on some (we ran out) I'm going to add a small amount of Sodium Metabisulfate to my coolant. It's used in home-brewing to sterilize the equipment before sealing the containers to let the brew ferment, and most definatly will kill everything in a computer cooling system. I doubt it will help corrosion much at all (it shouldn't affect galvanic-corrosion/battery effect at all) but it is an anti-oxidant. Since a 5-second quick rinse in a fairly low concentration solution of the stuff is all thats needed to sterilize brewing equipment I expect it should take a very small amount of it in a cooling system (and left in the system) to keep it growth-free, and so should not effect cooling performance much if at all.

I'm just waiting for my dad to start another batch of wine so I can steal some from him when he cleans all the equipment again - if anyone else wants to try it though you can go down to any home brewing supply store and get some.

I use G12 cooling additive (also red) ,does everything like waterwetter, maybe even better cos it's made for all top performing german cars, and I know one guy who is a rally car driver (VW Golf Turbo) and he said that this does indeed improve cooling.
And for 1.5 L (for all your cooling need for a long time) bottle I pay 9$
Btw I use 15% of G12 and 85% destiled water (not just without minerals also without gases)

try using mercury.... thats a nice liquid metal that probaly transfers heat. if im not mistaken it is very sesitive to heat.. ie those little red temp gauages

Mercury?
 

Hmm I think you are mistaken.
1] Murcury isn't red it's silver
2] Mercury is toxic (ewwww)
3] Mercury is friggin heavy (Poor pumps)
4] Mercury is damn expensive (He wanted to save $$ right?)

Sorry if this seemed like a flame... just randomly staing stuff

Washing up liquid is a 'Surfactant', but it Increases surface tension to the point that (strong!)bubbles can form!!...

AFAIK Mercury(when it expands) in a thermometre pushes red dye up the tube, so yes, they are 'little red temp gauges' :D ...

Re: Mercury?
 

Ya'll are right, to a certain extent.

There are mercury thermometers out there which are topped off with alcohol (the red part).

The oxide of mercury is an orange powder.

It is extremely toxic!!! I repeat, it is extremely toxic, and I mean, don't even breathe the stuff!

Although it is very heavy (high density), it is actually less visquous than water, and would actually pump extremely well. Pumps are sensitive to viscosity, not density.

Mercury being toxic, it is not only expensive to buy, it is expensive to ship, since it falls under the category of hazardous cargo, and also because of its sheer weight.


On the surfactant issue, a surfactant (like soap) makes the water less dense, so it helps to make it flow nicer. It also decreases the surface tension, so that the water doesn't cling to tubes, or block walls.

I think he meant jetdry or something. We used to use that in WC systems back in the day.

--Matt

you can buy erythromyocen(spelling is probably off) cheap at pet/fish stores. a few capsules worth and there won't be any algae or bacteria in your water.

Why not use antifreeze?? I do, and it can run my circuit for an eternity before messing with it. It is designed to be run in a cooling system.

It helps prevent corrosion, it has anti-critter properties, and it has a nifty yellow-greenish glow to it. What more can you ask for ?


Ice

You don't want to use antifreeze because:
1-it's not as good a biocide as you think.

2-it will degrade the performance. Glycols (antifreeze) are meant to be used where the temps rise very high, not near ambient.

Read Brian's article!

One last little tidbit about mercury.....

It can be absorbed through your skin... soo dont touch the stuff :) and yes it is extremely toxic.

Thanks for the reference. I read over the article and it confirms a lot of what I believed about additives. I still wouldn't want to use watter wetter even though it seems to be the best choice because it stains your hoses.

I only use antifreeze in my system for its anti-corrosion properties and it does seem to inhibit biological growth in my experience fairly well. Also, the efficiency of your water circtuit isn't reduced very much if you were to use antifreeze without going overboard.

I just drained my circuit last night and examined the coolant with a 1/5 anitfreeze - deionized water mix. The water looks a lot like when I put it in the system several months ago and my K4.1 block didnt have a goopy bio buildup in it that I could see.

I think it is great stuff for the job and the neon color isnt half bad. Well, it's good enough for me... Different strokes, I suppose.

-Ice-

First, surfactants (as far as I know) always reduce surface tension. If the surface tension was stronger than normal, bubbles wouldn't form. Isn't that how they reduce foaming? I thought they introduced something that increased the surface tension.

Second, mercury is a really difficult substance to work with. I think people have gone over the EXTREME toxicity (i.e. causes brain and liver damage, absorbs through skin contact, is almost impossible to medically treat, and stays in the body forever). However, even if you can handle the mercury safely, it is still not easy to use. That is because mercury loves to combine with metal surfaces in what is called an amalgamation. So, you need to use coolant lines and heat exchange surfaces which are non-reactive with mercury (e.g. certain ceramics like glass).

Third, antifreeze is not a very good biocide. BigBen2k is correct, unfortunately! I have seen cars with some algae-like substance growing in the antifreeze overflow reservoir, so I knew that something was alive in there.

Fourth, I am really excited about two of the biocides being mentioned: sodium metabisulfate and erythromiacin (sp?). I'm wondering how stable those are over time and temperature. So, how often would you need to add it so the coolant? What are the byproducts of these substances as they degrade (i.e. would they form corrosive compounds or would they deposit inside the waterblock)?

This thread was what got me so excited that I wrote that article, btw. I was writing a reply that was getting too big so I finished it up with some research and gave it to Joe for posting. Good stuff being discussed here! Keep it up!

Thanks for reading the article, icel0rd. I hope it was useful!

I agree about using antifreeze with silicone tubing. If you don't mind the performance hit, most antifreeze products are very well designed to prevent corrosion and they do help reduce biologicals because they are mildly alkaline.

Make sure to get a decent antifreeze though. The really cheap versions skimp on some of the anticorrosion additives such as dissolved silicates and the alkaline buffers.

Thanks for the details Brian. That article rocked.

I suppose that I can run my circuit for longer periods of time safely if I was able to add one of those biocides as long as it didn't react negatively with the deionized water-antifreeze mixture.

I guess it's time to look into those additives a little more closely.

btw, I was using Prestone antifreeze. It seems to do fairly well in my circuit, but I always strive to do better if I can :)


Thanks again

Ice

Speaking of surfactants, what about liquid laundry detergent? It doesn't foam (nearly as much)! Will this work?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Bob

Laundry detergent isn't a soap, that's why! Detergents work to break down oils and other biological components to the "dirt" in your clothing. They make the dirt easier to get out. Soaps are surfactants that reduce surface tension. Detergents will do nothing to help your coolant other than a possible slight biocide effect. :D

just a few more words on
Erythromycin: Pharmacology


'Erythromycin can be considered the prototype of macrolide antibiotics. These drugs inhibit the ribosomal protein synthesis in bacteria and thus have a bacteriostatic and bactericidal effect. Erythromycin has a similar action spectrum as penicillin and includes in particular many Gram-positive bacteria; staphylococci are often resistant. Among the Gram-negative agents Bordetella pertussis and Legionella pneumophila deserve to be mentioned especially. Like the tetracyclines, erythromycin is also active against bacteria-like organisms (Chlamydia trachomatis, Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Ureaplasma urealyticum). '


so, it can kill bacteria but I'm not sure for algae...

second, one site said for Erythromycin: 'The base is white to off-white crystals or powder slightly soluble in water, soluble in alcohol, in chloroform, and in ether.'

as I see it, one can use any antibiotic handy and put it into the wc system to kill bacteria. Still not sure about the algae.