Which block should i mill?
 

Block 1 (for graphics and northbridge):
http://homex.coolconnect.com/member3...et/passage.JPG
http://homex.coolconnect.com/member3...ipset/side.JPG
http://homex.coolconnect.com/member3...de_passage.JPG

Block 2 (for graphics and northbridge):
http://homex.coolconnect.com/member3...256/wc/tri.JPG

Block 3 (for HDD):
http://homex.coolconnect.com/member3...dd/channel.JPG

I just need help in choosing which gfx/NB block to use and suggestions to improve the design of my HDD block. All blocks will be using 1/2" in/out and will have a 2mm base thickness.
:p

which ever one you go with...try to increase your base thickness to atleast 4 or 5MM to get the best performance out of it. I speak from experience and have wasted many beautiful peices of copper learning the hard way.
what i mean by base thickness is the depth from the bottom of your channel to the bottom of the stock.
i cant give you any advice on any of them because i dont even know which are the inlets and outlets on them, but i will say dont go with the last one. you will get a huge pressure drop in that one and have an extremely high delta T no matter what you do.And i would have to say that based on what i can see, IMHO, none of them will be a good performer.sorry to be so harsh but you wanted the truth right?each of them will have alot of hot spots where water wont even move too often. it would be better to mill a simple maze design or atleast try to keep your channels the same diameter all the way through, and cut down on the sharp right angled turns because they will eat your flow rate faster than you think unless you have really deep channels to begin with.
designing your own is a fun and time consuming project. dont expect to create the perfect block in your first try either. the main thing to remeber is to keep trying and take your time.copper is a very unforgiving material to work with. and be willing to accept some constructive critisicm because there are many skilled people in this forum who will be glad to help you out if you listen( or not)

and just a little tip for your milling frenzies......use solid carbide end mills. yeah, they cost more but i guarentee you wont use 1/10th of the total HSS or simular bits, and you really have to try to break one of those babies off!!

Is that solidworks youre using??great little proggie.......sure makes modeling alot simpler:dome:

4-5MM?? IMHO, i think 4-5MM would be quite thick becos i am cooling chipsets only and not CPU, which are high heat producers.
the inlet/outlet for the first block is at the 2 dead ends, for the second, the center is inlet and the other is outlet. The third is for HDD cooling. Would it be wise if i have a manifold to work with them? What manifold design do you recommend?

BTW, i'm gonna have it milled by workshops, so dun worry about the difficulty level of milling.. LOL!

yea, i'm using solidworks.. a cool little proggie for modeling

EDIT: BTW, I'm using a EHEIM 1250 pump with a Cyclone 5.

yeah, sorry about that! for some reason i was thinking you were making CPU blocks. DOH!:p
and for the designs of the GPU blocks.. iwouldnt even worry about making them fancy. i would just make them simple open areas without the internal designs(the two lines you have on both sides of the inlet thats in the middle) after all its just for a graphics card and its not really going to make a real huge difference anyway. like you said, its not as if there going to get as hot as your processor would, so it doesnt have to be as efficient.
why not do them yourself instead of geting a shop to do it? man, there is no better feeling than putting a block in your PC that you made yourself and have it perform on par or better than whats on the market to buy! weith the exception of a nice cold beer and a hot peice !!:p in that order

hhheheeh!!! i'm gonna o/c my riggie alot so i gotta cool everything, including HDD, in a efficient way.

btw, I'm using the big arse radiator from Silverprop. The water coming out from the CPU currently is cool, not warm, not luk warm, not hot.. cool. my ambient temp is ard 32C, my AXP 1800 at default speed is now running at 40C IDLE Stable, my puny crystal orb cooling the NB isnt working efficiently..

so which block would u recommend for cooling the GPU and NB? and any suggestions for the HDD block?

Do i have to make a small "drench" for the O-ring to be fitted in?

Yes:D

hmm... If i dun make a "drench", can i still mount the plexi top on it? Will it LEAK :drool: ?

If you don't make a trench for the o-ring to sit in, it will have a tendency to "wiggle around" as the lid is tightened. It will try to stretch out to get away from the pressure (pardon the anthropomorphization).

Bob

hmm... i can possibly make a drench for it cos i havent milled my block, so i dun know how big a O-ring i should buy. hmm.. any suggestions on what to do?

*i know i may sound stupid, but please bear with it :( *

the design of the hdd waterblock is the worse one you can think about. the hdd disipate the heat across the aluminium chasis, not the steel cover (even when you have there a label...), nor the minimum (nonexistent) contact surface in the bottom side.

Bladerunner has an HDD block very much the same. What do you mean?

Check it out

are you saying that if bladerunner does it this way, it is the best way? if bladerunner jump from a bridge... the best way to cool the hdd is by the side. my raid has a copper plate in each side with a copper pipe soldered to it: 2x barracuda IV 60 Gb at ambient temp without effort. you only have to hold on your hand one of them when is hot to realize where is the hottest part: touch the aluminium, touch the steel and touch the label.

obviously, if you cool the hdd from the sides, you cant keep on using the 3 1/2 bay...

i d say that you will probably be making more than one waterblock. so i would go to mcmaster-carr.com and buy an o-ring cord kit so you can make your own custom sizes.
and i would steer away from "clear" tops as they have a tendency to crack or leak over time.
just make a solid block out of copper. or make the top out of aluminum and either anodize it or do something to make it non conductive so the battery affect doesnt occur from mixing metals. but bottom line is that you are going to have to put something to keep it watertight, and an o-ring is the best way to go:D

I don't know what kind of Acrylic do you Americans have or how you work with it, But I've made lots of block using plexy glass and I'm still waiting to see cracking and leaking, do it right and its 100% proof

i'm gonna use lexan (those from general electric) as the top. hmm... browsing thru the store u gave me... let's just hope they ship to singapore

EDITED: I cant seem to find the O-ring section. Can someone direct me there? Thanks.
BTW, can i make my O-ring into a square?

He he, I see what you mean. I was trying to get you to clarify your point.

My issue is that it doesn't do anything to the chipset on the HDD.

I suppose we could come up with a side-mounted copper waterblock that would be able to mount 2 or 4 HDDs, if this block had holes drilled through it, to mount the HDDs, but that's getting into custom screws (threaded rod), unless there's a lip at the bottom of that hole, then it could take normal screws. Of course this would have to fit in a 5 1/4 bay, or, if kept pretty small, custom fitted, somehow...

It still doesn't address the HDD chipset issue though. Any ideas?

Do a search on "o-ring" from the front page, left-hand side.

Bob

i have three seagate barracuda IV (hot as hell) and they has a plate and foam over the chipset. you cant even cool them with air unless you disassemble all the thing. if you disassemble it and want to watercool it, you'll have to take care of the different thickness of the chips. anyway, the hot spot is the hdd engine, not the chipset.


i had this problem when built my system. the solution is as easy as make two concentrical holes: one the size of the "body" of the screw, and the other one, the size of its head (the bigger one doesn't reach the other side of the block). umm, countersunk?

hehe!! came across 2 types of O-ring materials. Buna-N and Viton. I say i should use Viton, because of its ability to withstand heat and corrosive chemicals.

BTW, can i make square O-rings? I plan to make a 1mm deep depression on the block boundaries and get the 1.6mm O-ring to fit in. Good idea?

I will give up the idea of the HDD block for now, since there are so many arguments between monuting it at the top and at the side.

I would suggest the Buna-N material. The temps and chemicals used in most typical WC applications don't warrant viton, imho.

And they do sell square o-rings at McMaster-Carr.

Bob

hm... i measure my stuff in metric system, when i click on metric, only Buna-N seems available. Square Buna-N is nto available. hmm.. this thing is in a reel kind and i join them together with super glue? :(

will be getting Buna-N.. a whole 90 cents difference in pricing per feet. :D

Thanks guys!

Here's a crazy idea: if you cut that groove with rounded corners, you could stretch a round o-ring in it. You'd have to measure it all carefully though...

:D I think i will still make a square one, but with curved corners for easy fitting of the Buna-N.

anyway, if i were to make a 1mm drench ard the block (straight angles cut), what thickness of the O-ring should i use? Thinking of using 2mm, but I'm afraid the water will run over the channel walls. so 1.6mm of 2mm? :D

Thanks!

If your trench is going to be 1mm deep, I'd go with a 2mm O-ring. 1.6 might be a better fit though, you'll have to try both.

It's also going to depend on the trench width.

hmm.. what trench width do u recommend? I think i will go 1.5mm trench width(will be a few 0.1mm off :D ), with 2 mm O-ring. what do u think?

:D

Thanks!

(yikes, my spelling! Need more coffee! :D )

Here's an easier way to look at it:
The cross section of the o-ring should exceed the cross section of the trench.

If you're going to mill a trench that is 1mm deep, and x mm wide, then the cross section is 1*x (square mm).

If the o-ring's cross section is 2mm in diameter (radius=1mm), then the cross section is pi*1^2 = 3.14 (square mm). Your channel width would have to be less than 3mm.

Note: that means squishing the o-ring to half of it's thickness.

If the o-ring's cross section is 1.6mm in diameter (radius=0.8mm), then the cross section is pi*0.8^2 = 2.01 (square mm). Your channel width would have to be less than 2mm.

If your milling tolerance vary by as much as 0.3mm, then you'd be better off milling the channel 0.3 mm smaller.

Fixitt and Jaydee can probably tell you more.

Proper O-Ring use
 

Do not over-squish your O-ring. They are designed to seal with very little squish. My water blocks have a 0.062" (1.575 mm) diameter o-ring. The channel is 0.05" (1.27 mm) deep and 0.08" (2.032 mm) wide. You need to make the channel wider so that the o-ring has somewhere to bulge. The nature of the rubber in the o-ring will keep it sealing. Squishing too much can cause the o-ring to split. It can also bulge out of the channel and become pinched causing it to tear. My blocks have been tested to 130 PSI of air pressure submerged with no leaks, and should seal to at least 500 PSI. 130 PSI is all I had to test with. Of course they will never see pressures anywhere close to that.

I noticed someone suggesting that one should stay away from clear lids because they eventually leak. I think this statement is ignorant. The reason these lids DO leak is because of the poor design. Most of the lids are secured to the copper by 4 screws (one in each corner) and have the 4 mounting holes beyond the copper. This is a recipe for disaster. All the pressure that is applied to the edges of the clear lid will cause it to flex in the middle where it is not secured to copper. This is why they leak. The other problem is people over tightening the lids and cracking the plastic. The lids only need to be tightened enough so that the screws don't back out (except in flawed designs like this one).

http://www.geminicool.com/images/home_cpu.jpg

As you can see with my design, there is no stress applied to the clear lid like the other designs. Also I have 6 screws equally spaced to ensure a good seal.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/pvodrazka/0007.jpg

This is just my opinion of course, feel free to add your $0.02 if you disagree.

Thanks Paul, your design makes more sense now!

not sure whether what i'm saying is gonna make sense :D .

I will make the mounting of the plexitop as close to the center as possible.

As for the O-ring, i will ask th machinist to make a 1mm(Height) X 1.5mm(Width) trench.. i will order some 1.8mm O-rings.. what do u think about this planning? If no one objects, i will go into Solidworks and edit every single detail, making a trench for the O-ring and some holes for mounting.