Aiming high, for 200 FSB
 

As some of you know, I'm partial to Asus boards, but as stated in my sig, I'm shooting for 200 FSB, and the more I read about people's experiences, the more I look at the Epox boards.

So I'll hear everyone out: What do I need to hit 200 FSB, STABLE!!!

I'd also like to get cas 2 ram, even though it's not available yet, because right now, I don't see the point of getting into 200FSB if I can't have that. So I guess my Q is which ram can I expect to get lucky with?

Also, I have no intention of running the PCI cards at 40 MHz, so if anyone knows if there's a provision for 1/6 PCI speed, that's be nice!

Here's my mobo roundup so far:

Asus A7V8X

Epox 8K9A2+

The GeIL pc3500 ram kicks butt in P4 systems (hits 480+MHz), but it has had a few problems in AMD systems.

Other than that, perhaps some Corsair XMS PC3200 C2.

Once the temptation overcomes my desire to pay off my credit card, I'll be getting a 1.6A P4 and will try to clock that as high as I can get it.

corsair has pc3200 cas2 ram available.

--Matt

Geil = OCZ? That was what was said on o/cers the other day anyway. Caveat emptor.

i've already had gr8 luck with an 8kha+ and corsair pc 2700. by backing the ram timings it has already been possible to go over 200fsb mark. until i blew my mainboard by booting without mounting my waterblock. the msi i now have doesn't seem to like the heavy duty stuff.

sooo, i guess if u have the latest pc3200, it shouldn't be too much of a problem getting to 200fsb.

g'luck

I've read GeIL both is & isn't OCZ, which is true? I don't know...

I've seen reviews/tests that show GeIL is in fact very impressive DDR :)

But if you're a bit leary, then go with the Corsair XMS 3200 C2


As for the Corsair performance http://www.overclockercafe.com/Artic...R400/index.htm

I'd stay away from geil and stick with the tried an true corsair.

I'd recommend the asus over the epox any day

i work at a service center that services about 15000 pc's sold twice a year, and about 10000 laptops a year. all kinds of laptops but the asus laptops are particularly bad , comparing them to intel motherboard laptops and acer laptops. the motherboards fail more than anything we've ever seen. about the pc motherboards, the asus's fail +/- as much as the msi motherboarded pc's. this is all compared over a 2.5yr period. where +/- 50/50 is asus and msi. so in my view (not speaking of the laptops) the pc motherboards are all about the same quality, i'd look more for a bios that i like. the epox has the same bios system as an abit, but is (in my eyes) more reliable than abit is (very bad xperiences with abit). the asus bios i don't like too much, but that is personal preference.

Well, I did a bit of research & pulled info from quite a few sites and it looks like GeIL is (now?) basically the same company as OCSystems, which claim to only be a reseller, but have a very bad rating - both on resellerratings.com & anandtech.com.

The GeIL ram did perform good in a lot of reviews, but some of those test rigs and ram were hand picked by GeIL and it looks like it is basically overclocked to begin with, especially when it needs about 3v to get to it's rated speed.

I'm sure you could get the same or perhaps better from some good Corsair XMS PC3200 C2. I've been eyeing a stick on Newegg's page for a while now :drool:
Info here http://www.corsairmicro.com/main/pro...512-3200c2.pdf


Anyone know of a US vendor for Triplex Ti4200's other than OCSystems? :(

I just got my stick of 512mb COrsiar XMS3200C2 today! My 8K5A2+ hasn't arrived yet, but i'll let everyone know what it's like to bask in 200+ mhz Cas2 glory when I get it. Muahahaha!

Well i'm very partial to Asus as well, but i must admit that Epox boards have become even better. I only hear great praise about the latest ones with KT333 and more.
About memory in Europe i'd get Crucial and in the US i'd get some Corsair, both of course in CAS2.

Note: I dont know about newer Epox BIOS, but i hope it aint like ABIT's. I'm more leaned towards the hardcore-geek-friendly BIOS of Asus...

as I type this I'm at 185mhz fsb on my mpx2. I have been able to wander around the bios at 204mhz. maybe I should get a peltier for the NB?

this is going to be fun :D

Sounds like a great project Ben,

I have become a fan of Epox lately. I have 2 8K3A+ at work and I tested one of them for overclockability. I was able to get a 2000 MP to run at 192X10 using a Volcano 7 for cooling.

I used a 512 MB stick of Corsair XMS 3200 memory. This configuration yielded solid stability. The temperatures were approaching 50C at 1.85 Volts.

I believe that with the proper cooling and the ability to adjust voltage with this board to 2.1 V, it could have attained better than 200 FSB.

Brad...185 on the MPX2...I haven't attemted anything over 155...I am encouraged by your results. Any tips to share??

Cheers!

Thanks to everyone for their replies, specifically to CanO'Beans for the research, and to gmat for pointing out that Crucial is the ram of choice in Europe.

Kevin: looking forward to seeing your results.

It seems like the Corsair XMS3200 C2 is going to be my choice. Seems like there are various opinions about the mobos, but I don't see anyone recommending/pushing anything else than Asus or Epox. I think I'll stick with Asus for now.

I didn't see any comments on what to do about the PCI clock issue, nor have I seen anyone that has run 200 FSB, except for overly-giddy Brad :D

One more thing...

What's keeping me from Epox is their bad history of problems, with the AGP slot fiasco, where the capacitor interfered with a large AGP card, their bad supply of capacitors, which resulted in poor quality/high RMA (they either got scammed, or they intentionally bought grey market caps), and this thing about the regulators running very hot.

Epox AGP problem (sorry, it's a link to a [BAD] place)

That right there tells me that this company isn't terribly careful about specifications, but from everything I've seen, it is an excellent overclocker.

Asus on the other hand, really doesn't mess around. They're very close to Intel, when they design mobos.

motherboards
 

Ive been doing a lot of reading lately and Id like to recommend you give these two boards a look:

ABIT AT7 MAX2:
http://www.abit-usa.com/pt_main_back...MODEL_NAME=AT7
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP:
http://tw.giga-byte.com/products/7vaxp.htm

I'm seriously looking at getting the ABIT myself. They both support hardsetting the PCI and AGP slots so the overclocking doesnt affect them.

Thanks for the info mo.

The Abit AT7-max2, not to be confused with the IT7 (that's the Intel counterpart) doesn't have parallel or serial ports, so it's out for me.

The Gigabyte doesn't allow me to tweak the RAM and AGP voltages, (but more importantly the ram) so it's out too.

*nod* the ABIT was the hot item for me (Im getting the IT7 Max2) It performs better than the ASUS P4B533E with a low DRAM ratio of 3:4 (DDR 354 when FSB is at 133 FSB). I figured the AMD counterpart might be as good. But if you are using and need the legacy port, its definitely not the board for you

Best of luck

Definitely XMS3200. Heh. That and you'll need to do a VMem mod and uncap your voltage regulator. Without the VMem mod, you'll have problems hitting it. Most of the people hitting those speeds are running outside of the 2.5V-2.8V range (think 3.1V-3.25V). You might also want to consider a board that is easy to mod when you look. While you're at it, you might as well do a standard VMod, and then uptune the voltage to each setting through a pot array on the front of your case. It is totally geek fetish, so it'll fit in with obscene cooling, and help your conversation piece gain more notoriety.

He he, thanks airspirit, but I'll stick to mobo mods, if I have to go there!

Literally, the VMem mod is on the same voltage regulator chip (normally) as the VCore mod. Doing that is nearly identical to doing the VCore mod. The VReg (raising the top voltage limit) mod, again, is usually identical. You'll just have a bristling forest of wires and potentiometers coming out of your voltage regulator chip. It's all good. I wouldn't want to do anything to my RAM chips, anyway ... that would be frickin' crazy.

All the mobo makers who aim for overclockers have had their fair share of bad products. Asus service and RMA is particularly bad of late; had a friend get a replacement mobo with no ATX power header on it! Took about 15 weeks to RMA both of the boards. My Asus boards have had a very long lifespan, but were quite finicky when lots of PCI slots, RAM slots, and RAID were all running. Frustrating boards to set up.

I have had good luck with Abits, but some of their boards have been shitty (BE6, KA7, KT7-R) in terms of peripheral bugginess. This may have to do with their being among the first to adopt features, or they may just be sloppy.

MSI typically is cheap, rather bare in the bios, and performs a little slower than the comp. They are red though and usually sold at the corner store.

Epox boards have become my favorite because I could get $27 refurb 8K7As from newegg. They are not without issue, but they are putting features like the numeric LED indicators for bios codes, internal diode support for AMD, lots of voltage adjustments, and keeping a low price. Hard to beat that combo for my dollar.

If you truly care about stability, buy a Tyan or a Supermicro board. I am a tweaker and an o/cer (and a mobo solderer) so I go for price/performance by and large.

My vote for a board would be an ABIT or the Epox. ABIT becuase I have purchased somewhere around 6-8 boards from them and I have almost NO complaints about them and 0 manufaturer failures (except for the failures that I have caused :D )

I am leaning Epox though becuase of their "extreme" OC options and great stories from other users.

As for the RAM... Corsair all the way. They have always delivered what they claim on their RAM and better in most cases. Not to mention the life time warranty is nice :) YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!

um, not to burst your bubble or anything but 200mhz FSB is not really a feat. Tons of people have done it. I have an old 8k7a+ in my machine that does 9x200mhz to make 1800mhz on my XP. The new KT400 boards are intended to run 200mhz so if you stick with those you should not have much of a problem.

--Matt

New Shuttle KT400
 

http://www.shuttleonline.com/ak37gt.pdf

Official internal diode support, onboard LAN, lotsa other nifty features. I want I want :)

Yep official internal diode support is one thing to look at. Hopefully latest Epox boards have it (if my memories are right..). BB2K the problems you pointed at are past, now they've reached a point where their design is quite flawless. You won't be disappointed.
Oh and i heard about Soyo boards ("Dragon" models), I don't know about their real quality but they're a dominant species in Asia. What's holding me back is they're choke full of integrated peripherals...

As far as I can tell, none of the KT400 boards REALLY support DDR400. There are alot of hardware sites out there that are reviewing these things and finding the results a bit ... lacking. As far as OC'ing the thing goes, the new MSI KT3 Ultra2 boards can be had for the super-cheap and have very decent OC options (if you don't mind doing VMods ... the voltage options are the one seriously lacking part). The MSI boards do not have a manually changable multiplier, though. Furthermore, I don't believe that any of the MSI boards have a 1/6 PCI divider. The new MSI KT4 is supposed to be an absolute wonderboard, from what I hear. There are some really good reviews of it in the MSI section of the WWW.AMDMB.COM forums. From what I have gathered, the Epox boards are the top runners right now, though .... For straight-up hardware reviews and experiences by the people in the trenches (without a lot of bull$hit), check out the amdmb forums, though. They have an amazing amount of technical design and support information.

Oh, and as far as 200FSB being a feat, there is no guarantee that any hardware combination out there will get it for you. What I'm finding in research (since I am shooting for a similar target here soon), is that five people can get the exact same uber-hardware, and only two or three of them can get to 200-215. One will be capped around 166, and the others float between 180-190. There is no such thing as guaranteed DDR400 out there, really (the XMS is the closest thing to it, granted), and no board can GUARANTEE 200FSB. That is the real b!tch of it. For instance, I just built a system for a coworker of mine. Mine is watercooled and completely VModded. Hers is identical, but aircooled. With identical parts installed, mine cannot reach the 1/5 divider at 153FSB (it caps at around 146: 1.95V/2.9V/44C). I've got hers running at 172 right now with no VMods (1.825V/2.6V/55C). There is no reason that hers should go higher, but it does. Go figure, eh? I'm dropping some XMS3200 in my machine later this month, and I'm only hoping to get near 200FSB, but from the less than stellar overclocking I've had so far, I don't know if it's going to happen (I may just have to do the second unlock on my XP and run the multi up to 17 or something instead and keep my FSB stock to get my virtual wang size/Mhz number up).

Thank you everyone.

I've got another question:
What's the deal with the Athlon memory bandwidth limitation? I keep reading that the Athlon's memory bandwith is lower than what even DDR333 can provide, yet DDR400 reviews show an improvement over DDR333, but a very small one.

I thought that the whole purpose of overclocking was to raise the CPUs bandwith, thereby taking advantage of the faster RAM. Did I miss something?

Hardcore
 

Well, I have learned that when it comes to hardcore overclocking there is only one company to use - MSI. They are easy to use and very stable. I have used both old MSI Bx Master & MSI K7T 266 PRO-R (MS-6380) and both have been great. Quite cheap to. //Plaws