New Macs liquid cooled too...
 

http://www.apple.com/powermac/design.html

Pretty big oem here guys

It's a convection system, right?

At least they know how to do it inn style :)

Its starting to happen...
 

Noise and performance issues are starting to coalesce into the only viable cost effective evolution...water cooling. Note the water cooling is only standard on the 2.5Ghz box. Thats the fastest 64-bit desktop money can buy right now. Rare a Apple yuppie has the chance to own the fastest, apparently this is one of those times. Apple isn't Microsoft or HP sized, but they are no Alienware. I bet Apple has a pretty good solution going from an aesthetic, reliability, and noise perspective, albeit with probably mediocre performance.

With Hitachi jumping on the bandwagon, looks like this could be water-cooling's breakout year. It kind of seems a natural fit for Apple of all companies to mass-move watercooling(I'm assuming its not a heatpipe). They over-design and over-engineer their cases and cooling anyways, and they have developed a cach'e with their users now about having weird enclosures for their computers. And they sell a "boutique" product at a premium so they can absorb the cost better then say, Gateway (eeew!) and remain price-competitive. The only thing Apple competes with is their own image.

EDIT-Nevermind, it is heatpipe cooler

how so?

damn 10 chars...

Heat pipe. I wouldn't be suprized to see similar on PC's soon.

HOW is this a heat pipe?

Guess I read it wrong. I took "thermally conductive fluid" as something different than water. Were is the pump?

Yeah, where's the pump?
 

You're right phaestus...http://www.computerworld.com/hardwar...,93749,00.html

One thing's for sure, that Apple case is very well designed. Quite pimp. I cannot see the pump, but then again, knowing how Apple works, they could've done something funky and integrated the pump into the radiator somehow. I thought of that lying in bed about a week ago: Taking a big-diameter fan, like a Papst 172mm type, and placing a waterpump in the deadspace behind the fan, with radiator wrapped around the pump in kind of a helicoidal tube with radial fins, and drive the fan and pump with a common motor with a little plastic gearbox for the fan blades. Maybe Apple actually engineered something like that.

Also, the flow circuit is totally in series. From one block to the next block back to the radiator. If that was heatpipe goo, it would be pretty warm, and not very effective passing over the second CPU. So maybe it is a watercooler? Interesting.

Block looks basic, radiator looks normal, pump's probably a POS. Are they implying that normal WC systems are loud? For some reason I doubt this... I'll bet that I could easily conceal anything given a piece of aluminum, just like these guys...

Apple is INSANE if they are selling extremely expensive workstation class computers with POS pumps. In fact, I bet apple engineers know the MTBF far better than some bozo on the internet; care to wager?

Adequate (within safe CPU operating temperatures even in a hot room) and RELIABLE cooling at lower noise levels than air is the goal here; quite different from what DIY or aftermarket solutions go for.

Perhaps they use the Cooligy pump
 

I was digging around the Cooligy website and they have a patented pump called a "electrokinetic" pump. Depends on ion attraction and static electricity in glass to pull the working fluid through without moving parts. Undoubtedly a low-flow setup, useless for the performance cooler folks, but with no moving parts it makes virtually no noise and has obvious reliability advantages over a conventional pump. What do you think Phaestus?

hmm sounds like some sort of subarine propulsion system... soon some dude from apple will be asking for asylum with the apple at Microsoft since that dual 2.5Ghz Apple is deffinitely a first strike weapon :)

hehe

Pictures look exactly the same as the old G5 heatpipes. Unless they're showing pics of the old system, or the new system looks identical to the old while functioning completely different, i'd say its a heatpipe.

Which makes more sense. The old heatpipes easily cooled 80+ w G5s with barely a wisper. The new ones are supposed to be much less. Why fix what ain't broke? Particularly when a pump is going to add noise that wasn't in the heatpipe.

How do they control the flow then? :shrug:

redleader, read the whole thread
 

You'll see I posted a link to an article where an engineer says the system's fluid is "mostly water and some propylene glycol." That doesn't sound like a heatpipe.

I was actually referring to performance. I'm guessing 60GPH or so with about 3 feet of head, you know the old "good enough" attitude.

With a heatpipe, they automatically go faster with more heat, and slower with less heat. With the way they have it set up, though, I don't think it's a heatpipe.

Isnt the 2.5 gig processor new? I bet it pumps out a ton of heat...

Also, i think its reasonable to assume they left the pump out of the diagram... Thats marketing not an engineering blueprint...

too bad its useless to us with real computers ;)

death: they still put out less than 20 watts of heat. there is NO point in them having it except as a gimmick and to try to justify the huge, unnecessary cost that macs incur.

Got any sources? If they had a heat load less than 20 watts at 2.5GHz, with 64 bit and 90nm, a lot of companies would be switching so fast...

http://www.overclockers.com/tips00597/

some more info in the new g5 including details on the new g5 cpu

the cooligy water cooling solution is actually pretty cool. it involves a block made out of silicon that incorporates a lot of micro and nano scale manufacturing. Basicly, the block has a lot of strait paths that are etched out of cilicon (in the same way that circuits are etched on a CPU die). Because of the tiny water paths in the block, it is very effective at cooling individual hotspots, which is more important than making the die as a whole cooler.

The solid state pump is designed for silence, reliability, and most of all, it is the perfect device to pump water through thousands of channels smaller than the human hair.

The system as a whole is not intended for enthusiasts. In fact, cooligy has no plans (at least at first) to market the system to end users outside of the OEM arena. The system is entended to be a reliable and quiet cooling solution that can outperform conventional HSF coolers that EOMs can install with relative ease, and it accomplishes that verry well.

0.2 LPM is outdone by most fans. It will be very expensive, and long term reliability is largely unknown. There is still water in the computer, and that will turn off a lot of people.

And average joe's. Me included. :D

Thats probabbly why Apple never goes out and says "watercooling"...

3000 for a dual 2.5 gig machine that is watercooled? Thats pretty nice...

quote
"Samples of the product are expected toward the end of the year, with prices ranging from about $25 to $30." end quote

Wow!

But the end of that year has come and gone.

I'd take one
 

Apple's have changed a lot over the past three years. I look on that Mac and see AGP 8x, 1.25Ghz bus, dually 64-bitters at 2.5Ghz with 1MB of cache and DDR-800 memory interconnects. I can throw a FX-6800 in there with native drivers. And DoomIII, the only game that has really grabbed my attention as of late, will release the same day for the Mac as the PC which I think at this rate will be in 2007 or so... :shrug: The thing also runs Lightwave, one of my fave programs, rather well.

Macs also have a 64-bit operating system so the 64-bit part actually means something, unlike in Wintel world (yes Penguins, Linux can run 64-bit too, I know! I know!). And its based on Free BSD, essentially you are running a really nice 64-bit RISC Unix station with a really pretty UI and mainstream software, for 3 grand. Thats not exactly pain and suffering. I don't own a Mac, haven't for about three years, but if I was average prosumer Joe (non-modtweaker) looking for the best computer, (and if I actually bought and paid for all my software :rolleyes: )I think I would take this Mac over a Dell.

MacOS is 32 bit. Conversely there is 64 bit Windows for x86-64, although its pointless at the moment (much like 64 bit hardware without 64 bit applications or the need for expanded address space actually).

----

Looks like I'm wrong about the cooling. I wonder why they switched? All i saw was a quote about thermal density, but that seems suspicious to me. Afterall the heatpipe and waterblock both have copper bases. Is watercooling really all that much more effective then heatpipes? I doubt they're using any serious flow in these systems . . .

OS X Jaguar is 64-bit
 

OSX comes in two flavors, 32-bit & 64 bit. The only 64-bit Doze currently available is Server 2003. There will have to be a Athlon Doze, and a Itanium Doze I think. 64-bit Doze for Athlons is in beta. I know because I test it right now on a Opteron.

Many applications, including the whole Adobe suite and Lightwave, amongst others, are compiled for OSX in 64-bit already for sale. You can plug 8GB in your G5 to run those applications. 32-bit can't address more than 4GB or so. So there is a difference. This isn't some fluke, its just one of the few times where its convenient that the hardware guys and the OS guys are in the same company. They were ready for the OS when the hardware was ready. And depending on Microsoft to make launch dates is a formula for doom. Look at the Itanium fiasco. Talk about egg all over Intel's face. This is the biggest goof they've made since their RDRAM adventures of yore.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some apologist for Apple. But the facts are the facts....and those are the facts.

Here is a picture of the so called WC setup:

http://www.presence-pc.com/images/G5.jpg

Take your guesses.