barton vs. not-barton?
 

trying to decide on the a new processor. i have a 2000+ now. looking into something 2400+, trying to decide between a barton or not. was kinda looking at the barton 2500, or like a 2400+ 266 athlon (not barton).

well, because i'm probably buying a new digital camera, i think i'm going to scrap my lan server project, and put a promise sx4000 raid controller in my box. unfortunately, at least for now, this means no watercooling. so, are either of these over clockable with decent aircooling? i know, i know, aircooling sucks, but i just don't have the cash right now to build another machine.

ok, there's that, and the promise sx4000. i'm looking to put 2-3 120gb wd drives in raid 5. but, i gots a smallish problem. if i create a raid 5 system, can it be taken down and reassembled in another machine? or, can i just copy my existing 100gb drive to one of the 120gb drives, and then set up the new machine, and add the other 2 120's, and it will automatically build the raid system without losing my data? i've been confused about that, besides, i could just get two 120's that way and add my 100gb in the array after the data was moved, or something like that.

i'm going to be getting into a lot of video editing and photography stuff in the near future, and already am using all but 3gb's of a 100gb drive.

ok, i'm done asking questions now :) i know, i'm full of it. anyways, here's the setup i'm looking at at the moment:

-toshiba 16x dvd drive
-toshiba 4x dvd-r/w
-yamaha 44x cdrw (already have)
-2-3x 120gb wd 8mb
-promise sx4000 w/ 256mb cache
-2x 512mb corsair xms 400mhz ddr
-audigy2 platinum ex
-leadtek xp2000 deluxe
-ati radeon 9700 pro 128mb
-amd barton 2500 @ 1.83
-still not sure with mainboard, epox, asus or abit.

I will try and tackle both of these problems :)

First, the CPU. If you are looking to save some money and OC, then go to Newegg, buy the TBred 1700+ for $53 and get a nice HSF solution. I JUST built a nice system for an old friend that went like this:

ABIT NF7
Tbred 1700+
Corsair PC3000C2
Thermaright SK7
Sunon 80mm case fan
+extras

I was able to get that 1700+ chip to 2100MHZ @168FSB @1.8V and it was 47C underload (folding) and 100% stable.

OTHERWISE, get a Barton and dont even worry about OC.

Second RAID 5.

You have to have a minimum of 3 disks in order to run a RAID 5. You will loose the storage capacity of ONE of those drives but thtat is all.

You CAN move a RAID 5 volume to another machine AS LONG AS you move all the drives and the controller at once. You COULD get away with moving over 2 drives, but you would severly cripple your IO on that volume because then the CPU/controller would be responsable for rebuilding the data missing ON THE FLY.
Best thing to do is keep all the drives in the same config, move the drives and the controller to another machine and install the controller software into the new machine and the volume will still be intact.

From what you are prepossing in the rest of your question is possible IF and ONLY IF your controller supports adding drives to exsisting volumes and rebuilding ( I highly doubt that controller will though) I believe that feature is called FLEX RAID. My SCSI RAID adapter supports that function but then again it retails at around $450.

I would suggest you copy all your data to another source, (network computer, another HDD, etc) setup your 100GB + (2) 120GB drives in the RAID 5, then move the data onto the new RAID 5 volume. NOTE: you will lose 40GB worth of storage space on the 120GB because the RAID card will only allow you to make a 300GB RAID 5 volume due to having a 100GB HDD in the array. You also might have some compatability problems between the drives, but that should not occur.

Alright I hope that that helps you out. Good luck.

Can cheap raid controllers rebuild raid 1 volumes?

jroutma,

thanks for the info, that was very helpful!

as far as the card goes, according to some reviews and what i got from their site, the card will rebuild data. it is supposed to be even hot-swappable for failed drives. according to promise, you should be able to just plop in a replacement for the failed drive and forget about it. anyways, that's what they claim.


as far as the processor goes, do you think that the 1700+ @ 2100 would be faster than the 1.83 barton w/ 512k cache? also, would my 2000 OC similarly to a 1700, or what? it looks like i'm at the point that the 2500 barton should fit into the budget, so either one wouldn't really be an issue. i guess with the 1700 i could throw in a 4th hdd.


as far as rebuilding raid 1, i'm not sure, i think so. this card is pretty advanced and gotten some excellent reviews. and the pc133 cache doesn't hurt much, either ;P

oh yeah, when you say "don't even worry about OC" in reference to the barton, why do you come up with this? is the barton a bad overclock, or is the chip really a good bit faster than the rest of them?

Yes some of them, you will have to read the specs on your controller to check for that :)

-P-

what about running a 2400 tbred b? saves me another $40, sounds like a good chip, overclockable. so then it's comparing the 2400 tb w/ 2500 barton. arg.

model #'s on the newegg units:

oem - AXDA2400DKV3C

and, the retail model isn't an option.

I can't help ya much on the CPU decision - I'm currently stuck myself trying to decide between a Barton and a TBred-B for an upgrade.

On the RAID issue though, I would say that your controller will NOT be able to change RAID-levels/sizes on the fly, so moving from a single disk to a RAID array, or changing the config of the RAID array in the future (adding disks, removing disks, etc.) will require a complete reformat of the entire array. However, moving the array between computers (all disks + controller together, keeping everything plugged in in the same way) should not require any formatting, though I'd still back up the data first. As far as I know there isn't an official term for this ability on a controller - I've seen it called FlexRaid, dyamic-RAID, and a few other odd things - typically only available on expensive server SCSI RAID controllers.

Also note: this is NOT the same as being able to "rebuild" an array - that is basic RAID functionality that every controller can do. What the hell is the point of mirroring disks if you can't remove a dead drive and then mirror onto a new good drive.

To answer your questions:

Cheap RAID 1 rebuilds?

Yes (as Cova pointed out so very well :) ) This is required for all RAID levels except RAID 0 (AKA Striping) and JBOD (AKA Just Bunch of Disks or Spanned Arrays). Even though these devices will "rebuild" failed drives, these cheap IDE solutions will probably not allow you to simply add another disk to the array and automatically include it in the already functional array. Like Cova pointed out, that is usually a function found in very expensive SCSI RAID adapters for mid-highend servers.

Barton OC?

Too early to tell if Barton will be a good OC or not. I would say that if you spend the extra money on the Barton, then just not worry about OC it. It should be fast enough for your needs :dome: Otherwise if you feel like saving some money and getting something as fast or a bit faster with some extra effort, then go with the Tbred B CPU and OC. Thats all I was trying to say. BTW why spend extra money on a faster Tbred that will probably cap out at about the same speed as a 1700+ for less????

Ok anything else??

ok, well, i've decided i'm going to get a digital camera at the same time, so spending a little less on parts... no barton. was planning on the 2400. i guess here's the thing with that. i already have a 2000, so it doesn't seem "right" i guess to buy something slower... although that's not a very good point.

the only other concern is i've never gotten really good oc's with anything. a little here and there, but nothing major. course, i've never had a really nice mainboard like one of these, so maybe it's just that. how easy would it be to get that processor running fast enough? and stable, on aircooling? i'm kinda thinking just keep my 2000+, which came from newegg, and overclock that. i was just gonna sell off my old parts anyway, and if i need a proc in my existing setup to sell it off, i could just throw in a cheap xp in it. should i just keep my 2000+?

ok, the only last thing is the memory. i was going to buy the 2x 512 deal, but can save myself about 100$ buying them individually.

looking at the following:

CORSAIR MEMORY XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series CMX512-2700C2 PC2700 DDR RAM 333MHz w/ Heat Spreader - OEM
512MB 64x64, Non-ECC, 184-Pin, CAS 2.0 -Unbuffered Requires DDR supported Motherboard - Lifetime Warranty. Model#: CMX512-2700C2

OCZ DDR RAM 512MB PC-3200 400Hz Basic Series MemoryOCZ400512. HeatSpreader. DDR400, CAS 2.5, 184 Pin Dimm, ULN Technology,REV2 3-6-3 1T Timings, DDR memory. Heatspreader, OEM, Lifetime Warranty. Model#: OCZ400512/OCZ400512B

OCZ DDR PC-3500 Basic Series Memory 512MB Model# OCZ433512B
Specifications:
Type: DDR 184-pin DIMM
Size: 512MB
Speed: 433MHz, CL 2.5
Features: Copper heat spreader, 2T CMD rate Model#: OCZ433512/OCZ433512B

CORSAIR MEMORY XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series 512MB 32MX8 PC-2700C2PT With Platinum - Silver Heat Spreader OEM
Specifications:
Speed 333 MHz
Organization 64M x 64
CAS Latency 2-3-3-6-T1
Memory type DDR
Part number: CMX512A-2700C2PT Model#: CMX512-2700C2PT

this was the memory i WAS looking at:

CORSAIR MEMORY XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, Low Latency (Twin Pack) 1GB(2 x 512MB) 2x(64MX64) PC-3200LLPT With Platinum - Silver Heat Spreaders.
Specifications:
Speed 400 MHz
Organization 2 x 64M x 64
CAS Latency 2-2-2-6-T1
Memory type DDR
Part number: TWINX1024-3200LLPT Model#: TWINX1024-3200LLPT

the last one really isn't an option any more, because of the digital. and the other toys i want. but hopefully i can reclaim some cash selling off my old parts (a lot of them :) ).

oh yeah, i'm leaning towards the OCZ pc-3500 433mhz.. because of the mhz. it would probably be quite the jump from my pny stuff.

annnnnd.... one other thing. thinking about going with all zalner coolers on it, and using 1/2 120's (temporarily) on the system. they any good? what about zalman's crazy-ass heat-pipe for the vid card?

Assuming your board is not a top brand and it is not an nForce2 chipset; I would keep the 2000+ and just get a little more kick out of it. IF you could get that chip up to 2Ghz, that should be more than enough.

As for the key to making HSF OC a success, use a nice LARGE heatsink, 80mm fan with a nice amount of CFMs, and PLENTY of airflow through the case (even better, just plenty of air flow OUT of the case). Like I posted earilier, the Thermatake SK7 with a Sunon 80mm (rated 39.0CFMs) worked great at getting the heat away from the chip. Then I had another 80mm (generic) pulling air from the side of the case in directly over the HSF. Finally, I had one more Sunon 80mm pulling air out the back of the case. I can say this much, it was quiet and relatively cool.

As for the new memory, STAY AWAY from OCZ. I have heard nothing but bad things about them........thats all I can say. I have had increadily good luck with Corsair and you do get what you pay for.

IF you decide to get an nForce2 MB, then it would be to your advantage to get at least PC3000C2 memory. Almost all the nForce2 MB can hit 180FSB without modifications or extra voltage to the chipset. In that case, crank up the FSB as high as you can and be satisfied with 166+ FSB. Dont get PC3500 RAM unless you are committed to hitting 220+ FSB.

If you have/get a non-nForce2 MB, crank the FSB up a bit and then max out the Multipier on the chip (if possible). In this case PC2700 RAM should be all that you need.

I have heard good things about that Zalner video heatsink cooler; probably would be a good investment with adequet air flow through your case.


Good luck.

I have been contemplating the same upgrade and this is what I have decided to do. I am buying a AIUHB (0247) XP2100+ for $99.00. This processor has a very, very, very good chance at 2400 mhz, that would smoke your oced XP2400+ for $60 less. (I am not picking a fight just lettin you in on what is the most likely outcome).

Crap I missed the fact that you were air cooled, never mind because you would need at least 2v to reach the high oc that i mentioned and you only want to go that high if your chillin wit da wawa.

ok, well all good to know.

as far as cooling goes, yes right now i'm going aircooling. actually looking to zalman for everything, including a copper cpu unit, and maybe if i go nuts the heatpipe for the vid. otherwise, just the flower cpu, vid, and the bigass nb. then, on the card bracket maybe running a 120mm. i've got 2 nasty fans.. i think they're delta's, brand new still. i think they're 100+ cfm. was originally going to put 1 in front of case and 1 top rear (inwin q500). might still do that, and run a couple 80's on the card bracket or something. been having troubles cutting the case.

i do think i will migrate to watercooling tho. eventually. i thought about some designs that would work, even in a smaller case. after i get the toys paid and out of the way, i'll start building.

as far as the memory goes, i'm looking to spend about $200 or so on the mem. the xms 400mhz would exceed that. should i go for like the 333 xms, or the faster corsair in the "basic" series?

looks like i'm probably going either abit or asus on the mainboards. but, the abit handles more mem. i know everyone recommended epox, but due to the onboard firewire i was leaning more towards these two. and, the abit looks to carry more mem. but, i'm guessing the abit would be just as admirable in oc as the asus, i just haven't decided for sure yet.

how bad is putting the flower on the radeon? and, does anyone use radeonator? i've been toying with it. i was noticing a bit of lag a couple times, possibly attributed to it. not sure what that was about, that was the only real variable tho. and i didn't have it really cranked up, it was just up a tad.

thanks for all the help.

oh yeah, just wanted to add

what about true samsung memory? i saw corsair uses samsung chips, i believe.

ideas?

If your gonna keep it stock then I say get the barton. As far as Samsung, I have no personal exp but I have a friend who does reviews and crazy ocin and he says that they require major voltage. Whatever you get make sure that it will run at cl2 at your default clock as the performance diff is very noticeable between 2 & 2.5.

XP 2400+ stock is faster in all cases than stock Barton 2500+.
There are some good OCings done on 2800+ and 3000+ already (ok mainly with LN2 or dry ice). Up to 3.46GHz last time i checked.
Corsair memory has Winbond chips.
Mobo: the best mobos for AMD currently are the Asus A7N8X (along with a new BIOS) or the corresponding Epox (same story). and in both cases *take off that NB heatsink* !!! and replace it with active cooling (waterblock or crystal orb) if you ever want to get a chance at 200 FSB.
Get Corsair TwinX to go along with it and enjoy 200+FSB with 4-2-2-2 timings... Or 'basic' 3200XMS and still get CAS2 (but 7-3-3-2 stable) timings.
Newest A7N8X UberBIOS (check amdmb.com) unlocks TBreds-B by default, without modding the chip.

definitely good info to know, good to hear. i was thinking about going with the zalman nb with a 120 fan blowing over the works (100+cfm), until i could go water cooled. kinda noisy, but i figure it'd do the job.

probably going to stick with my 2000+ for now, unless i get some extra free scrill.. not only am i going after the digital camera, but i just found a damn awesome deal on a turbo rx7 donor car to make my little b-series a no-work 10sec ride http://www.iroc409.com/pub/smileys/xyxthumbs.gif

really appreciate the info.

F@#K the computer get the turbo car. 93-97 series or the pre 93 car. 93-97 if my fav, great looking and fast as hell. Good luck.

single turbo, so pre-93. and no, i won't be driving the car. it's a donor. but i'd love a 93-97 donor! woohoo!

Now that the new abit is out, it is the best board out. There are only a few reviews of the rev 1.2 but you can find them. It outperforms the a7n8x in every discipline except one or two, and it offers excellent features (minus the second ethernet jack).
Mine arrives tomorrow.
I did notice something curious here. Is it really necessary to watercool the nForce2? I find that watercooling my KT333 is innefective because it actually makes my northbridge run hotter than if it had a regular fan on it. How hot is the nforce2????
-Zoson

I currently run my Epox 8RDA+ nForce2 northbridge @ 210FSB with a Vmod of 1.82V. The only thing I have cooling the NB is a Blorb and it is barely warm to the touch. I attached it to the NB using two small drops of 5 minute epoxy and AS3 between the core and the Blorb.

I am not too sure why some people still think that watercooling the nForce2 is a necessity.........

so a zalman with a 120 would work well :)

Sounds like overkill... :)