Smelting copper
 

I am not sure about the terminology...but I think smelting is the term....Would it be possible to make a waterblock jig out of steel or some other high temp metal and pour the smelted(molten) copper into the mold?

Tuff <-------------is just throwing this out for discussion.

it's possible to do but I think it's gonna take alot of heat:D

Finding a suitable material for the mold is a challenge.
Vacuum injection molding is necessary to not have air bubbles but high pressure injection molding will yield good enough results.

The word you want is "casting". Its been tried, but its very difficult.

i was thinking about this the otehr day...

2000 F to melt copper...

about 780 degrees F to melt zinc..

the pennies past 1982 are made of 97.5 percent zinc and 2.5 percent copper. Copper and zinc have similar heat indexes... Pennies before 1982 are made otu of 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc..

I am hopefully going to either get like 300 newer pennies and melt them in my fireplce ( i have done it before) and pour the result into a clay.

Clay or ceramic is what they use for casting copper and other hot metals. But if this goes through i can make a nice water block for around 3 dollars :p

Bruno Facca casted some blocks, but we don't know how the story ended...:(

here's the link:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...a&pagenumber=3

You'll end up with copper + zinc alloy, or brass as its commonly called. Its conductivity is pretty bad, so I doubt it will be a good performer. Pure metals are always several times better then their alloys. Adding things to a metal lattice seriously ****s up the flow of electrons (and the thermal energy they carry).

Weell thanks for the help..

Do you know where i can buy ZINC itself online?

OR do you know if there is a way while the coper and zinc is heated up to seperate them?

Thanks

Why don't you buy a copper bar?

Small hand held butane torches vary from 1300 to 1700 deg C is that hot enough to melt the copper?

I can purchase these for 9 bucks...if not..I can get Oxy/acetalene for bucks.


Tuff

It seems to me that a cast block will not perform as well as a billet block. Lot's of tiny imperfections in a cast piece...

I think U could use sand to cast the copper in. Poure some water in a bucket of sand and then shape a mirrorimage of the block U want to create. Pour in the copper.

This method is used both for casting metals and also for casting glass.

You can't possibly expect to arrange dry sand in a shape even remotely like a waterblock.

Even if you did, there's no way you can melt and quench the copper properly, under the right gas purge, without some very expensive equipment and a good load of skill. Copper is notorious for its difficulty in casting as well as cold-working.

The question I always ask myself when I come across ideas like this is "why?" I have nothing against people wanting to do new and strange things - in fact, that's one of my favorite things about this forum - but I don't understand why people would want to do things differently without asking themselves how it might make things better. I guess it's not a bad way of looking at things, but I still think it's strange.

A parting shot: why not just take a chunk of copper and cut away everything that isn't a waterblock?

Alchemy

A reason I would like to do it is because A. i can get more ornate and thin designs in there than i can get in a mill and B. i dont have enough money to rent a mill or have someone do it for me.

If the 9 dollar butane torch reaches 1700 C that would be great... then i could actually use copper instead of using ZINC.

At the moment i want someone to please post a linc to where i can buy zinc in either the minneapolis minnesota area or where i can buy it online.. Or can someone tell me how to remove teh 97.5 percent zinc from the 2.5 percent copper in modern pennies?

thanks

I said wet sand.. And it works great...

I also have equipment proper enough to melt copper. I think i'm going to try it.. My fathers basement is full of old copperpipes and stuff...

Don't use Zink... It really sucks..

Why would u say zinc sucks..?

copper is EXTREMELY hard to cast as i am told...

zinc and copper have nearly the same thermal properties says every online source i can find.

Oh and zinc has a MUCH more attainable melting point..

I don't know where you found this information :(

Zinc has a relatively low thermal conductivity. You'd be WAY much better making a #rotor block in al, both in terms of price, performance and ease.

Thermal conductivites:
http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/tk/tks/tcon.html


Thermal Conductivity, W/cm-K

Copper 3.937
Zinc 1.024
Brass 70% copper, 30% zinc 1.220

Specific Heat

Copper 0.092
Zinc 0.0915

http://www.lib.umich.edu/dentlib/Den.../Specheat.html

Hummm but apparently it sthermal conductivity is bad... similar specific heat though..

I prefer this link myself, it also shows melting points and other nice info:
http://web.mit.edu/3.091/www/pt/pert14.html


BTW: About the wet sand idea, pouring molten metals into anything wet will get you explosive results, do not try this.

Also the waterblock on the Tt Aquarius kit is cast copper for what ever thats worth. It's prolly easier/cheaper to mass produce blocks this way, but I doubt the results are stellar or everybody would be doing it.

peace.
unloaded

Yeah as i just learned the hot metals and wet sand idea does give explosive results as unloaded pointed out.

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/

someone from oc-forums.com recomended that site.. looks like i am just going to be making my own block by finding a milling serivce but i might make a block using copper and a furnace idea from them in the future

If youre planning on buying the necessary materials to make a furnace to melt copper, then why dont you just take the money and buy a decent drill press of a $399 mini mill from Homier?



Everyone is always coming up with these half-cocked ideas to make blocks........................and to see how many fingers or limbs can be severed in one swoop...... Its just crazy!

I mean, were not talking about alot of money for a drill press or a mini mill!..........probably less than what youre going to pay a doctor to try to sew your finger back on, or 1/10th the cost of your stay in ICU , suffering from 3rd degree burns from the molten copper washing down 50% of your body.......taking 99.5% of your skin with it.

Why dont you just do what everyone else does that makes em' and .....
Go buy the appropriate(safest) equipment, and >>MATERIALS<< to do so. Its a hell of alot safer than trying to cast your own copper WB...especially if you have NO IDEA of what you are doing!

Because im not a dumbas.. molten metal is NO less safe then a drill press spinning at 15,000 some odd rpms... you just have to be careful.. and 400 dollars is a LOT for me..

If you checked the site the furnace to cast copper is actualy quite cheap... stuff u can make from home.. just the problem is copper is a bit hard to cast. thats why im going to go to a mill and pay someone 50 bucks to make my block most likely.

but making a nice cast of something with a cheap furnace in my freetime would prove fun

Hell, Id just like to be able to buy a drill press that can do 15,000 RPMs...
And would much rather have it fall over on me running, than to spill a crucibal full of molten Cu at +/- 2000 F on my leg.
I have a furnace that I made a few years back, .....I tried to make my own blocks when I first got into watercooling and it just didnt work out so well for my likings.Theres just too much work involved in setting up the molds for copper......... I just stick to Al casting for now if I find the need for it, which hasnt been too often, now that I own 2 cnc mills.

And for just so you know........copper is NOT "a bit hard to cast".........IT IS ONE OF THE HARDEST MATERIALS KNOWN TO MAN TO CAST . This is the main reason why it costs so much.
And its best cast in a controlled envirement, unless you like trillions of microscopic gas pockets all through your casting, upping the thermal gradient of the Cu...
You cant control that with your average backyard furnace...dumbas or not

All I can say is be careful......the minute you start thinking that you cant get severely burnt casting metal, will be when you find out that you can.

Whatever you decide on. Good luck

A WORD OF WARNING!!!!

A student was killed here at Oxford trying to sand cast Aluminium when the mould hadn't been given enough time to dry.

The temperature instantly boiled any remaining moisture in the mould, and as previousl explained, it exploded.

He probably would have only been injured if he hadn't turned and run. A large portion of the molten aluminium was thrown into the air and landed on the back of his neck, running inside his protective clothing.

I need not go into any more detail.

As for being able to make intricate patterns in the block. This will only work if you can control the filling of the mould very accurately. The design of the mould will also take considerably more time than producing a CAD drawing for CNC machining. There are many factors involved in producing a successful mould for casting, and without using very expensive techniques, the results won't be that great. That means you will need a large amount of finishing. This will have to be done on a milling machine. And to be honest, if you're doing that, then you may as well mill the whole thing.

8-ball