Jet impengment directly into IHS ideas...
 

What I am suggesting is instead of using a copper base and making the cups for the jet impingment we make the cups IN the IHS itself AND in the copper base. The holes will go through the base and match into the IHS of the CPU. Being this, for now, is about Intel CPU's instant death shouldn't be an issue with a pump failure or whatever.

What are the obsticles? Main one is sealing. I havn't found the layout of the IHS but if it is big enough you could almost use and O-ring around the outside of the IHS. Wish I had an Intel P4 of some type.

Is this a stupid idea and/or am I the only one crazy/stupid enough to try something like this?

Think of the problem as this:

You have an AMD CPU.

You have a 30x30mm x 1.5mm thick piece of flat copper.

How do I build a waterblock around that piece of copper?

Oh, the piece of copper has a 1/16" hole in it too.

I am confused. Are you making the point I am ignorant because I have all AMD CPU's (which is true except the laptop) or are you saying the AMD IHS on the Opterons is to those specs, or are you saying the P4 IHS is to those specs?

Anyway what if of you go .75mm in to the IHS? Most of the cooling is the first jet impingment not the secondary isn't it? 30mm x 30mm is pretty big thats like 1.1811024 inch x 1.1811024 inch. You can easily get a Oring around the outside of the IHS on the bottom of the base of the block unless your talking about 30mm squared..

Or what if you just drilled through the base of the block and left the IHS alone. The impingment would be directly on the IHS. probably more realistic....

You still need the second inpingement, otherwise you might as well go with a direct die cooling approach, a la MaskedGeek (JFettig). It'll work, but nowhere near as well as you expect it.

I think that the o-ring, with the base drilled through would be best. You'll clamp down the IHS so it becomes flat, and make a near perfect joint. Of course you're still using a thermal paste, but the excess is just going to wash off.

The problem, if any, is getting rid of the nickel plating, without affecting the fine geometry of the IHS. Otherwise, it's still a prayer that the coolant isn't going to extract any more thermal paste.

Bah, this is just stupid. Don't be afraid to say it. :D Would be better to take off the IHS and just use a standard block with jet impingment.

I wonder if the IHS on the Opterons is removable. From the pics it doesn't look like it. And is it flat as opposed to the P4? maybe a better project for the Opteron.

jaydee, no offense mate, but I think you need to switch to decaf coffee. Unlike some people, I never thinly veil an insult. If I'm going to insult you, there'll be no mistake.

The specs that I have above are for the P4 IHS. It is 30x30mm x 1.5mm thick, with a 1/16" hole sitting about 8mm in from one corner that needs to be plugged if you want to attempt what you're describing.

My concern about drilling into it is that no accident is made and one drills through the core.

I actually like the "drilling through the base of the block" idea better and I suggested something like this for direct-die cooling in another thread, but it could easily be applied here. Drill through the base of the (Cascade-style) block, and mill out an O-ring groove in the block base around the holes. Lap the IHS flat, stick some thermal paste on it (to facilitate thermal transfer into the cup walls). Throw an O-ring on the block and mount the block to the CPU. The pressure of the mounting will seal the O-ring to the IHS adequately.

[Edit: Bah - cross post with BigBen2K above while wife distracted me to fix a broken washing machine...]

No no, I wasn't takeing it as an insult at all. I know I am ignorant am not insulted by someone pointing it out or the term being used to describe me.

I remeber talking about this in one of your threads before "someone" jumping my shit for no reason about it and it getting off the subject.

Why I havn't really thought about trying this before is I didn't think it would be really worth it. But the more I think about it the better it sounds. More so for the Opteron though. I am not sure there would be a benifit over just poping the IHS off the P4 and just using a normal Cascade style block.....

IHS = Integrated Heat Spreader, right? I just wanted to clarify or confirm. I'm sure there are other people out there also not sure.

Yeah that's right.

I'd remove the IHS whatever I did purely cause of the shit awefull TIM it has, once that's done there's no reason to use it at all. Like you say, just slap a Cascade on...



Is the P4 core waterproof? Whats's the difference between it and an AMD one? They both use 'the same' silicon right?. When peeple talk about "AMD CPU's not being waterproof" they are talking about the core as well as the 'organic substrate' are'nt they?(I'm thinking about the cascade style DD block)...

Im pretty sure the glue and the organic packaging are the problem when people say they arnt waterproof. I think the actualy core itself is waterproof.

No actually you can keep the IHS, and use it as part of the block. The o-ring is just an added safety, for leaks, because you never know how the actual geometry of the IHS is going to turn out.

In fact having the IHS already gives you a small advantage, because you have a protective layer on top of the core.

If anything, because of the TIM joint to the fins, you'd have to compensate by making the gaps between the dimples, a bit smaller: because the TIM joint is going to cause the heat to accumulate within itself, you only need a very thin wall between the dimples.

The hardest problems really, is getting the nickel plating off of the IHS, and lining up those dimples as tightly as you possibly can.

i'd certainly love to do this to my p4.

I like the drilling the IHS idea and using an O ring seal best. I'd certainly want to experiment on a chip other than my 2.53 though.

Do the Celerons have the same IHS? Those seem pretty cheap on e-bay...

The new ones do.

That might make a good cheap prototype.

Pricewatch listed $57 for a 1.7 ghz celeron (slowest celeron with the IHS)

Don't forget that the P4 IHS has a hole through it in one of the corners. It might not be much of an issue with proper o-ring placement. The hole does go all the way through and when I was lapping the IHS, I cleaned it using 100% ethanol, and it would go in the hole and then back out around the bottom edge of the IHS in a couple spots where it was not sealed by the epoxy.

The IHS (at least mine) did not have a continous epoxy seal around the base where it attaches to the silicon.

Here are some pictures that you can see some of the P4 IHS features.

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~i6735189/cpu/P4/P4.htm

Yep. There's actually a gap in the middle of each side, as Cody Stasyk found out here:
http://www.overclockers.com/tips1087/

(goto page 3 for the pic)

Man I thought the IHS was epoxied on by some type of thermal compound. I didn't realize it was epoxied on around the die.

Anyway the hole is no big deal. Just stuff it with silicone and you should be able to fit a small O-Ring around the top of the IHS. I think it still would be better to just remove the IHS all together though and use a standard block...... I will ponder this more asi am half tempted to buy a cheap Intel system to mess with...

I'd just go with a round o-ring, that fits within the IHS's area.

You can get O-ring material and make your own. I just bought 10ft of it for $4.00. The guys said cut each side at about a 45 degree angle and super glue it to gether. I did this on the O-ring on the Copper Lemon Block and it works. The super glue actually melts the two parts together it seams.

yeah, regular direct die without good inpingement sucks for sure, I cannot tell you what its like with good inpingement.

It would be pretty easy to make a block like cathars with an o-ring around the bottom. BUT you need a good amount of pressure to compress an O-ring. I experimented with poorly designed grooves back in the day when I did my 1600, and I couldnt get it to compress good without almost snapping the mobo.

so super glue works on the O-rings? sweet, because I was gonna order some O-ring cord from mcmaster but they didnt have anything to bond it with for separate sale, that I could find anyway. Im gonna try that out!


Jon

Yeah thats what the guy told me and it is a professional shop. He does this stuff for a living so I belive it. I tried it and it worked. No long term results but I don't see any reason why it would fail as long as it stayed compressed. I asked him what do you use to bond it and he said cut you just cut each end at an angle and use super glue. I was a little blown away it was that simple. Would have started using O-Rings long a go if I new it was that easy to make them any size you want. :D

That would depend a lot on the material used, for the o-ring, or cord.

I've been through a dozen different materials, when selecting one for my "Radius" waterblock, and I finally opted for silicone. Does cyanoacrylate (aka super glue) work well with silicone?