Pro/Forums - View Single Post - US vs German systems

Pug · 07-07-2004, 02:43 PM

BillA = "a bigger rad will always win"
Always my argument in the past (allowing for appropriate fannage, of course). Thanks for agreeing with me at last - I seem to remember when you advocated that "flow is everything", a point I have had to contend with from many adamant posters on the web who think their single 120mm setup outperforms my twin & triple rads because they run with a 1250 pump and wide bore tubing.

I don't see the allegations of marketing to be a valid point in a thread dedicated to discussing the advantages & disadvantages of German (and US) systems. I see it as me sharing my experience with these types of parts and highlighting shortcomings with the opposite approach. Recolour "salesman with a passion" as devil's advocate or enthusiast with a different viewpoint if it stops you thinking of it as such. I've long acted as a self-appointed ambassador of the Euro approach and Ithink even Cathar can quote me on that one from a past discussion elsewhere.

As a Brit, I have always seen your typical US kit as a large hose (generally using barbed fittings with the exception of the Swiftech range), powerful pump (E1250 or equivalent) and a shrouded heatercore accommodating a single 120mm fan.
German systems on the other hand, to my mind, comprise smaller diameter tubing (generally using plug in fittings), a low to mid range pump (E1046/48) and a twin or triple 120mm fan radiator.

Admittedly, this is from someone who spends a lot more time on places like Bit-tech (as mentioned) and Ars Technica rather than here. Going through my memory of the BT Extreme Kooling Gallery, I seem to remember a reinforcement of this viewpoint. (Chew Toy's system here falls in with it too.)
My own entries into the Bit gallery include one each of a triple, twin & single fan rad, with the single fan one that's now running an 80mm rad (after I borked my 120 rad) cooling CPU, GPU & HDD being the bastard child of the group wrt the "traditional" approach because it is cooling the least heat producing machine.

Phaestus, I can't admit the US DIYers were mostly right. As I said, the majority of US systems I saw (including your PC-50, which swung me into buying one, only to find that mine had no removable tray) had big tubing and a single 120mm fan rad, I have seen about as many dual 120 rads in US rigs as single fan rads in German systems (ie. nowhere near as many as the other way around).

I was thinking back to one of my earliest German systems to confirm that it had a twin-fan rad to reinforce this and whaddya know, I was using the original Airplex (prior to the continuous copper tube Evo), which was in effect a Serck heater core!
Check it out. Some of you must remember that rig.
Can I get an apology yet?

Where there are advantages to be had, you can be sure I'll do my best to investigate them for my own ends.
As an enthusiast, I even have a few of the best non-production heatercore examples I've been able to find in my own personal collection.
If I could find a production equivalent of the one on the bottom right with suitable fittings at a fair price, guaranteed I'd jump on it. Fitting it easily into one of my systems... well, that's another story.

HAL - in the UK, the 22501 kit comes out at £190.35 (overclock.co.uk), the kit I linked is £199 (ahem, my place). Source - CustomPC magazine, Issue 011, August 2004

07-07-2004, 02:43 PM	#333
Pug Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: UK Posts: 80	BillA = "a bigger rad will always win" Always my argument in the past (allowing for appropriate fannage, of course). Thanks for agreeing with me at last - I seem to remember when you advocated that "flow is everything", a point I have had to contend with from many adamant posters on the web who think their single 120mm setup outperforms my twin & triple rads because they run with a 1250 pump and wide bore tubing. I don't see the allegations of marketing to be a valid point in a thread dedicated to discussing the advantages & disadvantages of German (and US) systems. I see it as me sharing my experience with these types of parts and highlighting shortcomings with the opposite approach. Recolour "salesman with a passion" as devil's advocate or enthusiast with a different viewpoint if it stops you thinking of it as such. I've long acted as a self-appointed ambassador of the Euro approach and Ithink even Cathar can quote me on that one from a past discussion elsewhere. As a Brit, I have always seen your typical US kit as a large hose (generally using barbed fittings with the exception of the Swiftech range), powerful pump (E1250 or equivalent) and a shrouded heatercore accommodating a single 120mm fan. German systems on the other hand, to my mind, comprise smaller diameter tubing (generally using plug in fittings), a low to mid range pump (E1046/48) and a twin or triple 120mm fan radiator. Admittedly, this is from someone who spends a lot more time on places like Bit-tech (as mentioned) and Ars Technica rather than here. Going through my memory of the BT Extreme Kooling Gallery, I seem to remember a reinforcement of this viewpoint. (Chew Toy's system here falls in with it too.) My own entries into the Bit gallery include one each of a triple, twin & single fan rad, with the single fan one that's now running an 80mm rad (after I borked my 120 rad) cooling CPU, GPU & HDD being the bastard child of the group wrt the "traditional" approach because it is cooling the least heat producing machine. Phaestus, I can't admit the US DIYers were mostly right. As I said, the majority of US systems I saw (including your PC-50, which swung me into buying one, only to find that mine had no removable tray) had big tubing and a single 120mm fan rad, I have seen about as many dual 120 rads in US rigs as single fan rads in German systems (ie. nowhere near as many as the other way around). I was thinking back to one of my earliest German systems to confirm that it had a twin-fan rad to reinforce this and whaddya know, I was using the original Airplex (prior to the continuous copper tube Evo), which was in effect a Serck heater core! Check it out. Some of you must remember that rig. Can I get an apology yet? Where there are advantages to be had, you can be sure I'll do my best to investigate them for my own ends. As an enthusiast, I even have a few of the best non-production heatercore examples I've been able to find in my own personal collection. If I could find a production equivalent of the one on the bottom right with suitable fittings at a fair price, guaranteed I'd jump on it. Fitting it easily into one of my systems... well, that's another story. HAL - in the UK, the 22501 kit comes out at £190.35 (overclock.co.uk), the kit I linked is £199 (ahem, my place). Source - CustomPC magazine, Issue 011, August 2004 __________________ Owner: Wizard Designs :: WizDforums :