[davidzo]

Originally Posted by HiProfile

It'd make sense that the non-sensitive parts like camfers on mounting holes that you'll never see weren't given much attention.

Yes, but does it make the whole thing easier or somewhat better to machine? I think no

Another thing is that the Cascade XS/XXX and alike are dead, not to be used as contention points when arguing about the storm - Cathar has said repeatedly the storm has gone in a different direction than the Cascade XS/XXX.

You are completely right. Imagine the cascade with its jets is in the middle and there are two extremes, one to the reight, thats the XS/XXX and one to the right thats the Storm. I pointet out that he has gone first to the left, but hasn't found what he was seraching for and then he tried the exactly opposite with the storm and finally he succeded.

I also want to point out that you might get more overall friction from more tubes, but at the same pressure, you get more overall flow (think of it as a cookie cutter, how much dough will either design get in the tubes after pressing into the dough). I understand that you get more overall friction, and combat it with more jets, which need smaller holes to keep up velocity...essentially the "chicken and the egg" scenerio. Basicly, Cathar is saying the Cascade & Cascade XS/XXX share little in common with the Storm other than looks with each other. Tests done to confirm changes to the Cascade design won't really do much to explain the Storm from what I'm hearing.

Thats right again, the Storm goes in the completely opposite Direction. The storm uses bigger cups and injected jets to achieve a good waterdistribution (what the only manko of the cascade was, the distribution). Thats what some firms in Europe and some People already have tried, nothing really spectacular, nothing new. The big goal of the Storm seems to be the wheiging of the different factors against another. And i think cathar is pretty good in improving an design and getting the best out of it, can't wait for the results. Thats a really complicated and high precision work to do, so i fully respect what cathar did here, but the basic design has still been used in some similar looking shape (Excalibur, Murks3.1 etc.)
But thats not completely different. Come on guys, this is cathar, i expectetd a little more than only tweaking with the same jets and in someway similar looking baseplate.

As for the Euro microstructure blocks, the main problem with them is just what you mentioned - low flow; not internally, externally. IMO it'll take [the majority of] Europeans a long time to convert to the mindset of extracting every extra bit of flow from the system where they can. [I just don't get it - our cities may be different densities, but our PC cases are have exactly the same space inside :shrug: Why not use it all and go 1/2" ID?] They also have a hefty pressure drop as well, meaning you can't interpret an incomplete graph of lower flowrates to cover the highflow region. It'll also be hard to compair the two designs, since you surely won't find a review testing both on 3/8" and 1/2" ID systems & representive flows for both. Each were designed around a particular flowrate - micro's low-moderate flowrates, storm/inpingement(sp?) for moderate-high flowrates. Another thought is how will the Storm be moddified by the reviewers this time? The last major review with the cascade featured what Cathar said to be a user-modified block, changed in such to negatively impact performance. Little River WB's aren't made to have their bases simply perpindicular to the sides... One possitive thing I will say about microstructure blocks - they are much cheaper to create and maintain than the Cascade/Storm blocks are. That alone may ensure their future dominance.

Sometimes I can't understand it too. My first Rig was build from a small singleradiator, a mp1200 and a selfdremeld copy of a white water with 16 small channels, alltogether with 10/14mm Tubing (somewhat in the near of 1/2")
It performed ok, but not as good as other lowflow systems because of the small radiator (only single)
Its very interesting to look where the different people give there money:
- There are the highflowpeople. They use very large and powerful pumps with big tubing and less restrictive blocks. The radiator is not of a big importance, a blackice single or a heatercore is enough, if not, they add a second delta and a secon shoreud onto it. Quick connection Hosebarbs are for women here, they only want big hosebarbs like they are known from the garden equipment.The main Point here is the pump- they easily spend a 30 $ more for the pump and don't know that they would only have 1° higher temps with the smaller pump. They think their systems performs really good, because they have a few 100liters per hour more through their block, which can affect a 1-2° decrease of the temps
- There are the lowflowpeople. They use very big triples and also bigger Radiators, somewhat interesting microstructurecoolers and small pumps with small tubing. They think the heart of the watercoolinkgit would be the radiator. They spend much money just to tweak 1-2° out of the temps through a very big Radiator. Most they are also very interested in technics and looks. Normal hosebarbs look too primitive to them, they want something special. Quick connects are perfect for them, they have a high technical standard compared to normal barbs and they look wuite different. Tubing doesn't matter, because flow doesn't matter, there are only 1-2° to get with better flow

I think both thoughts are a bit funny
Imagine what an increase in performance an European could get if he just uses big tubes. Imagine what an increase a highflowguy could get if he just uses more than a single radiator.
there must be a way in the middle. And this way is to be searched for. Cost-effective highend watercooling, a mixture of highflow intentions to get the performance of the block up to date and the bigradiator issue and the practical tubing to get the Usability noobproved.

*Note: not a rant on Euro trends, I just can remember way back when watercooled systems, with the exception for the WB internals, looked just like most Euro setups do - 3/8" tubing, small pumps, and condenser-style rads. Again, not a rant, just trying for "sensefull interhuman communication". I'm also unprepared to 'put my money where my mouth is' to verify what I say, but in the same sense, very, very few others are able to either.

I can imagine back a time, when all Europeans used 10/14mm PVC Tubing and normal hosebarbs and not the special PUR-tube and some nice metalic Quickconnectors. That was the time where simple channeldesigns were on the market. In this time, Europeans testet eheim 1046 and 1048 against another and came to the statement that the 1046 is better at all than a 1048. The funny thing is, that they measured right. Because of the primitive blockdeign there was no advantage of the higher flow blocks, no difference with flow. The only difference was the heat dissipation of the pump. And the eheim 1046 and 1048 are still so similarly in terms of performance because of the same head, that it just sounds logically that there is no difference between the 300l/h pump and the 600l/hone (in real sytems somewhat 80l/h to 90l/h).

Europeans look with the same smile in the face down to the Americans (for example) an their highflowrigs. They laugh about the simple and brutal looking hoseconnectors and holding mechanism, the big tubing from PVC (what is well known as the cheapest tube in Europe) and wonder why they use so big Pumps.
The point where the European gets really nostalgic feelings is when it comes to highflow radiators - mostly heatercores. They are rusty and with the big 38mmfans mounted on the shroud it looks so primitive. Then Europeans think of their own Radiators, with stainless Steelcover, nicely machined and suitable extra for 120mmFans and watercooling issues.
Thats funny i think, but also sad, because both partys forget a much tweaking potential of which they haven't thought the whole time.

being rude

hey, it was meant in a sarkasting way, you understand, it was not menat to you?!