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BalefireX · 10-10-2004, 07:34 PM

I guess my point is that realistically, no country (or individual) is going to make a serious sacrifice, whether that be in terms of money or loss of life unless it gets something out of it. Any government that didn't act in the interest of its own people first and foremost would be a pretty poor government. However, just because someone may have their own motivations doesn't mean you should ignore the positive consequences of their actions.

I would have preferred that the freeing of Iraq was a UN action, but since a number of countries with heavy financial investments in Sadaam's government sit on the UN security council, and destroying/handing those investments over to the Iraqi people would not be in the interests of those countries, I doubt that we would have seen a UN action any time in the forseeable future. Again, countries looking out for their interests first and foremost.

As you said, Sadaam had been in power 15 years too long already, so I'm glad that someone has done something about it.

//edit: re Jag

1. I think the idea of international law is a farce, since it has been proven time and again that countries (and this goes for pretty much every country, try and name one that has never violated some international law) will break the rules when they deem it is in their interest. Speaking frankly, if I felt that I was in danger, I would want my government to do anything in its power to protect me, rules or not, just like I would break societal rules in order to protect my own life.

2. I don't know if the average American understands that it can take 10-20 years. I certainly do, as that is what I was trying to suggest in my earlier posts. I hope that America is in it for the long haul, because at the moment I don't see the rest of the world stepping up in any great numbers to help. They can claim that its out of spite for America, but that is unfair to the Iraqi people and sounds to me like the tantrum of a child who hasn't gotten their way. Maybe if the UN were doing something about the bad situations around the world I'd have greater respect for them, but at the moment they appear to be a lame duck.

3. The effects of propaganda are well documented. You might be able to say that 'those just show what the camera saw' but ask any photographer, director, reporter, etc and they will tell you that the way they take a picture, frame a shot, or write a story can change the story it tells.

Once again I am forced to wonder... are Europeans so virulently anti-American that they believe everything America does to be evil? It makes me sad, because really, hating Americans is no better than hating Blacks or Jews, or any other group.

I must ask the question: Apart from putting the needs and wants of Europeans before those of its own citizens, is there any way for the US to stop the hate; or is it simply a case of hating someone because they have a differing opinion and the power to enforce that opinion?

10-10-2004, 07:34 PM	#21
BalefireX Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 269	I guess my point is that realistically, no country (or individual) is going to make a serious sacrifice, whether that be in terms of money or loss of life unless it gets something out of it. Any government that didn't act in the interest of its own people first and foremost would be a pretty poor government. However, just because someone may have their own motivations doesn't mean you should ignore the positive consequences of their actions. I would have preferred that the freeing of Iraq was a UN action, but since a number of countries with heavy financial investments in Sadaam's government sit on the UN security council, and destroying/handing those investments over to the Iraqi people would not be in the interests of those countries, I doubt that we would have seen a UN action any time in the forseeable future. Again, countries looking out for their interests first and foremost. As you said, Sadaam had been in power 15 years too long already, so I'm glad that someone has done something about it. //edit: re Jag 1. I think the idea of international law is a farce, since it has been proven time and again that countries (and this goes for pretty much every country, try and name one that has never violated some international law) will break the rules when they deem it is in their interest. Speaking frankly, if I felt that I was in danger, I would want my government to do anything in its power to protect me, rules or not, just like I would break societal rules in order to protect my own life. 2. I don't know if the average American understands that it can take 10-20 years. I certainly do, as that is what I was trying to suggest in my earlier posts. I hope that America is in it for the long haul, because at the moment I don't see the rest of the world stepping up in any great numbers to help. They can claim that its out of spite for America, but that is unfair to the Iraqi people and sounds to me like the tantrum of a child who hasn't gotten their way. Maybe if the UN were doing something about the bad situations around the world I'd have greater respect for them, but at the moment they appear to be a lame duck. 3. The effects of propaganda are well documented. You might be able to say that 'those just show what the camera saw' but ask any photographer, director, reporter, etc and they will tell you that the way they take a picture, frame a shot, or write a story can change the story it tells. Once again I am forced to wonder... are Europeans so virulently anti-American that they believe everything America does to be evil? It makes me sad, because really, hating Americans is no better than hating Blacks or Jews, or any other group. I must ask the question: Apart from putting the needs and wants of Europeans before those of its own citizens, is there any way for the US to stop the hate; or is it simply a case of hating someone because they have a differing opinion and the power to enforce that opinion? __________________ If not, why not? Last edited by BalefireX; 10-10-2004 at 07:54 PM.