[Kobuchi]

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

Don’t site anymore poll then. I only used the Gallup Poll because you mentioned a supposed Gallup taken in Iraq. In fact, that poll does not exist. However, the poll I sited does. 13% said that they want American Troops out…hardly a majority.

I incorrectly named the survey sponsors ABC and CNN, when in fact we're both reading from the same USA Today and CNN sponsored Gallop poll.

Confirm my link (USATODAY.COM)

Now let's clear this up. I'd said earlier that, according to this poll, 61% of Iraqis wanted US forces to leave immediately. That number comes from question G8:

"Should US/British forces leave immediately (next few months) or stay longer?"


Baghdad
Immediately 75%
Stay longer 21%

Shi’ite areas
Immediately 61%
Stay longer 30%

[]Sunni areas[/i]
Immediately 65%
Stay longer 27%

Kurdish areas
Immediately 3%
Stay longer 96%

Total
Immediately 57%
Stay longer 36%

OK?

Now, your "13% said that they want American Troops out…hardly a majority" plainly doesn't come from this part of the survey. But it is from the same survey: the unscripted portion where "Gallup asked Iraqis to articulate", in other words to freely offer their opinions, as they came to mind. 13% repeated or elaborated on their answer "leave immediately" to question G8.

All we can draw from this 13% is that they feel just answering "leave immediately" isn't enough.

So according to Gallup we had a majority wanting US/British forces to leave immediately (within a few months), and we can guess many of the others wanted US/British forces to have left some time after that.

OK?

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

Further, my opinion backed by a reputable third party…Gallup.

Now what?

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

the alternative was total security and with a totalitarian state. Which practiced state sponsored torture, murder and rape...

Occupation by foreign superpower or torture, murder, and rape? You should write polls.

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

Iraq is about to become the first Arab Democracy thanks to the USA and allies.

I wish. If this comes true, my son will be extracting the $20,000 (I think that's about it - BillA?) yours owes. Do you really want Iraq in a position to sell oil on its own terms, as best profits the Iraqi people? Got euros in your mattress?

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

they will tolerate occupation in order to insure that civil war does not erupt or anarchy to insure.

A wiser programme.

***

Originally Posted by Lothar5150

Kobuchi how about the first paragraph in the article. At no time did the OSCE believe the elections were rigged in any way.

WASHINGTON, D.C., 4 November 2004 - The 2 November elections in the United States were conducted in an environment that reflects a longstanding democratic tradition, including institutions governed by rule of law, free and professional media and an active civil society involved in all aspects of the election process.

Never mind that paragraph, read this one. This first paragraph describes the background.

I repeat my position: the elections were not rigged. There was no electoral fraud.

I'll back my statement that there is controversy about the elections. Here's what the OSCE Preliminary Report had to say:
"Allegations of electoral fraud and voter suppression, primarily among minorities,
were widely reported and presented to the EOM in the pre-election period. The EOM is concerned that the widespread nature of these allegations may undermine
confidence in the electoral process."

I'll also back my statement that international observers were denied the access they wanted.
"OSCE observers were granted access to polling stations in a number of states. Access was sometimes limited to specific counties or to specific polling stations within a particular county. In those places where access was granted, OSCE observers noted that the key elements of HAVA were being implemented. There were, however, a number of concerns."

These are just facts you've challenged. I'm not denying the Republican party should be in power for the next four years.