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Unread 02-23-2005, 07:56 PM   #47
Lothar5150
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucanus
Sweden? .
And I'm rambling...
Yes you are, please read post #29


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucanus

What I was about to say is this:

If our nations history has taught us anything it is that democracy or any other form of government for that matter can only come from one direction - and that is from the people up. They (WE) must want it. Simply storming in with guns and shoot anyone who doesn't agree with you isn't a solution.
Sweden used to be like that, we were a super power once, most of northern Europe including large parts of what today is Russia used to belong to us. Heck, we were 2 weeks away from putting a swede on the Tzars throne in Moscow but he was assassinated on the way there...
We did quite well for ourselfs, for about 150 years or so untill we've reached a point where we had alienated most of our neighbours or old allies, spent all our money on the military, large parts of the poulation starved and the costs of war had brought us to the brink of bankrupcy.
So we were forced to give it all up and withdraw from Denmark, Norway, Poland, Germany, Russia and Finland (which by the way still has swedish as official language).
Granted our wars was faught for greed, pride, land, wealth and influence - but the lesson is the same...

War (or call it 'disarmarment by force' if you like) isn't the solution.
Democracy must come from inside. And the international community can help by providing mediation or with peace keeping forces if need be. But we simply can not let ourselfs sink so low or become so brainwashed that we believe that the way to freedom can come from the barrel of a gun, in Iraq or anywhere else for that matter. And by the looks of it, Iran is next on Bush's list.
With a war-monger like that at the wheel - I'm honestly worried he's gonna start something he can't stop. If the US goes into Iran, we might very well be facing the next big one... the one ending with III.

Anyway.. Have a nice day
Was Sweden a democracy when it annexed its neighbors? Did your King allow free elections? I think the motivation of your leaders during your “Super Power” period were driven by personal ambition. I think you are comparing apples and oranges.

Iraq has had its first election so that it can write a constitution. You can’t deny the tremendous turn out. You think that well organized tyrannical states fail from the inside? Or that there can be a popular uprising? Give me a break. I've seen the fascist state in action. It is impressive what it will do to the ordinary person. After a generation people will not take a crap without permission.

Bush is playing the crazy cowboy to give you (EU) more leverage diplomatically. Besides that theocracy may fail on it's own at any minute. Almost 80% of the population is under 30 and they are sick of the Mullahs dictating to them. Now this is an example were a popular uprising may happen. Non-fascist authoritarian state with political divisions. On the other hand fascist states like Ba’athist Iraq, Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia or Castro’s Cuba will never fail on their own. They work too well.
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