[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Etacovda

Pre-rant: None of this is specifically directed at you Jaydee (ie i dont think any of this is your fault) so dont take it that way If i use 'your', its [just because its easier in the context, just meaning 'USA'.

No problem.

Agreed, BUT - what gives America the 'world police' rights?

The UN is supposed to be the world police but they can't seem resolve anything. If we don't do something we get bashes if we don't do something we get bashed.... We are in a lose lose situation with the rest of the world. We are much like Microsoft. Big evil entity that everyone hates but can't live without....

Heres a nice statistic for you -

"In a single day, U.S. cluster-munition attacks in Hilla on March 31 killed at least 33 civilians and injured 109. A hospital director in the southern Iraqi city told Human Rights Watch that cluster munitions caused 90 percent of the civilian injuries that his hospital treated during the war. Human Rights Watch obtained hospital records from Hilla, Najaf and Nasariya indicating 2,279 civilian casualties in March and April, including 678 dead and 1,601 injured."

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2003/12/12/iraq6582.htm

"A more conservative figure comes from Iraqbodycount.net, a British Web site that compiles media reports on Iraqi civilian deaths. Based on such reporting, the site says there have been a minimum of 12,778 civilian deaths in Iraq and a maximum of 14,820."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Sep21.html

12,000 civilian deaths Jaydee. TWELVE THOUSAND.

Did you fail to read the rest of that article. Saddam left in power would have killed 10 times that amount... At least those lost were not meant to be killed on purpose.

Kinda makes the world trade centre look pretty average in comparison, yeah? Makes a terrorist attack look almost justified, doesnt it? How is the US govt/army any different to terrorists, when the end result is worse than what the terrorists did?! In your own words, its 'chicken shit'. No two ways about it.

Umm, no. Not at all in fact. We don't target civilians.

Then, you add in the damage done to MANY buildings, farmland, homes; the general occupation would destroy many things, along with trade (touched on in the other delphi thread). And thats just the gulf war man, what about korea? vietnam? the cold war? all the other conflicts? Id like to know specifically how many innocents the US has killed since WW2.... To be honest, im disgusted with the rest of the world (specifically the UK) for backing it as well. There must be some mighty fine money passing hands somewhere, and ill bet its stained by crude.

Why just pick on the USA? The rest of the world is not any better man.The USA is not the only country that has ever been in a war eh?

I don't pretend to understand all of the dynamics of the US, but one thing is clear to the rest of the world. Stop trying to clean up the rest of the world when theres just as much shit in your backyard that needs tending to. Drop 5% of the military budget, and I wonder how many people would be taken off the streets, I wonder how many people would be given health care so they can actually become functioning parts of society.

5% Wouldn't do jack. You could take the entire military budget and still not cover 10% of the US population with health care. Also many people on the street choose to be there. There are plenty of jobs to be had, they choose not to have them. All the homeless I see are not standing in line at the unemployment office. They are standing in the street asking for charity. Everyone has the same opportunities in this country. That is why people from all over the world flock here.

Not doing anything about these people is just passive genocide, in my opinion, and to have the GAUL to occupy other countries because 'what they're doing is wrong' when theres so much ****ing shit in their own country is just laughably hypocritical.

There is plenty being done actually. There are dozens of government programs specifically for such people. Not sure why you don't know it being you seem to think you know everything else about the US? People do in fact get free health care here in the USA. The people that need it that is. Also our employers are required to offer it. I only pay $40 a month for health dental and vision for myself and my daughter.

How does this relate to the thread topic? Censorship, Media and Statistics. If your average American thinks that their boys in uniform are all doing the right thing over there, but are unaware they they are killing many more innocents than terrorism does, but yet they cannot stand up against their govt and can be sued/questioned/investigated/whatever pretty much through the patriot act (that was a good act/bill to pass...) for insinuating anything against their govt, how is that so far removed from dictatorship?

Huh? You seem to have no idea what people think here. Not sure were the rest of the world gets their opinion of the USA but if it is from similar sources I can certainly understand why the world would hate the US people.

'he said something against saddamn, cut off his head',
'he said something against bush - investigate him and his family, if you find anything, 'deal with him' or make him a media scapegoat...'

That is not the way it works here. People bash Bush all day long and they do not get investigated. Not sure were you form your opinions but they certainly are not on target with regards to how the US is run. Maybe all you guys hear is the things that get blown out of proportion and only happen once or twice. Maybe you guys fail to see the hundreds of thousands of protesters throughout our country speaking their mind against the Bush admin... The way the news works these days I would not be suprised. All they seem to focus on the the extremes of everything and always the negative.

Seems that people are getting more and more afraid to speak their mind, and its sad. Censor everything, and eventually no one knows whats bullshit and whats not any more...

That I will agree with but maybe for other reasons.

edited profusely for ease of reading

Just to be clear I do completely agree with you we should be taking care of our own better and should be focusing more on helping our own people. However the rest of the world constantly complains enough about how little we do for the world over all. Damned if we do damned if we don't....

Do I think we should have went to war in Iraq? Not really. I would have rather seen it stay political until Saddam gave up and let the UN get it's way or Saddam forced a card and started the war. Then again 100,000's of people would have been killed by Saddam on purpose as opposed to the 12,000-15,000 accidentally killed by us and the rest of the Coalition. Hell more people die of cigaretts everyday... Why dosn't the governments of the world do something about that and the 500,000 people a year that die from it and the 50,000 non smokers that that die from it a year? Oh yeah, tobacco products are a huge revenue source...

Anyway the USA sure isn't perfect on any level. However there is a reason people from all over the world flock her to live and stay here after they got here.

Just for a note this will be my last post on politics. I come here to get away from such subjects.