[bobo5195]

Originally Posted by UNDERBYTE

Germany actually has a trade surplus, Yet they still have 10% plus unemployment, low growth and the same powder keg of political instability that France has,

500 billion dollars trade deficit could be termed as the largest transfer of wealth in history, a rich to poor redistribution that any socialist would consider fair.

Yet at this same time the US economy is growing at about 500 hundred billion a year which probably works out to a wash on some economist spread sheet model. Some of those dollars do come back in the form of Germans Japanese building auto manufacturing plants in the US (China wanted to buy an oil company recently) so I think it is probably a net gain for the US on the free trade scenario.

The main economies that do not practice free trade are the socialist economies and they are the world’s worst performing ones. It looks to me like the US has more of a winning strategy long term while not perfect we historically low unemployment and relatively low inflation with strong economic growth. Probably not perfect but it works.

What gets me is the leftists socialists and communist model wherever it has been tried it has failed as a viable political /economic structure. Russia, eastern Europe , Europe, china, south America (I can not believe they are trying it again) etc. It feels great when you stop beating your head against the wall so why keep doing it?

Clinton and Blair’s third way is just a rehash of Hitler’s third way. No new ideas. The left wing communist and socialist template is second wave political philosophy in response to the 1880’s Industrial age social upheaval and generally hit it’s peak during the 1920’s to 1960 FDR and LBJ’s Great Society. Technology is transforming the world as much as the industrial revolution did and what form it take nobody knows. Bush’s ownership society? Something else? Nobody knows but my guess is that inefficient models i.e. left wing will fade as serious contenders.

US Government spending is out of control and despite what people say that my tax rate is 35% add 13.9% SS (I am self employed) federally mandated taxes through the state income, property and sale taxes it actually brings the amount to over 50%. And what gripes me on this one is that LBJ decoupled the fund so the government could spend the surplus , which they have on off budget Items. Then Clinton set it up so the government can now Tax SS income. Taxing me twice on the same money? SS is under funded? It is my money! I could spend it more eff. Than any government employee I think we fire all republicans and democrats (limit them all to one term) and keep a little more ourselves.

Germany has demographic problems like Japan, its high unemployment like france is a production of the German employment system for better or worse, it depends on your way of looking at things.

As for it being fair socialist redistribution that is a complete misunderstanding of terms as your making money for the money men. I would look at as China owning the USA ass, (I think it currently owns $2 trillion and bush keeps giving them more). Mortgaging of the future.

That $500bn is a direct result then of a massive budget deficit giving china more and more control of the US economy. Fighting a war in Afghanistan which ended up flooding Europe with large amounts of cheap heroin and trying to control a country where everyone has a AK47 under their bed. Similarly in Iraq where nobody likes the invaders and is rapidly turning into a country in anarchy with as one British general said “stupid” military tactics.

Germany and France are both far bigger trading countries as a percentage of national income than the USA is. EU means that they probably rank as some of the most (if not the most) free trading states (within a trade group in the world). Winning strategies have come and gone throughout history. The current one is no different to the older basis based on Keynesian economic thought, that produced large amounts of inflation the current one racks up the debt. The current US (and indeed Brittan) situation looks more and more like an assest price bubble that could go pop. Consumer debt is at an all time high, if people start defaulting it could start triggering a proper genuine economic depression. Current interbank derivatives are so diverse that there is a very real worry that if one bank goes pop that things could go very red. This is a very real result of low interest rates. Low rates have also fueled a property bubble current UK house prices are about 30% over valued vs rents it could be the 1980s all over again. Inflation has only remained low due to low oil prices in previous years and a massive 40% drop in prices thanks to china coming on the world scene. Other prices have been going up at above normal rates. This causes a long term problem in that the trade balance is hopelessly skewed in the USA to import of cheap manufactured groups. Chinese growth will remain good for a while but soon high oil prices and higher wages in china are going to bite. Also employment maybe to low causing wage inflation. I don’t think the US economy is doing well I think its on the bus home, totally hammered on cheap drinks, and in the morning comes the hangover and credit card bill. Examples are GM which is nearly bankrupt and if that goes a lot of things are going to go awfully wrong.

Socialism has worked pretty well in Europe I think. I would hardly call Europe a failure. They are trying it again for the very reason why socialism works. It is a redistribution of wealth to help eliminate the inequalities created by a free market things. These cause unrest and social problems. An example is there are 1 million Americans below the poverty line. European gini curves look nice, American gini coefficients look like a African military junta. Assuming that all things are measured in $ now is a little optimistic. For example European social mobility is now better than the US, the cancer drug mentioned for the UK, is there even debate about that in the US? Of course, you’ll get it if your rich (Probably very rich), some people get nicer cars the poor people die it’s the way the system works. There is no hard definition for efficiency of the economy. They maybe problems as is currently being shown but that could well be a factor of European societies being more integrated, the rioters are rioting precisely because more Anglo Saxon methods are being introduced.

If the third way is fascism, then the US is a Feudal monarchy (say Hillary gets voted in 2008, and wins a second term how many years of two families running the USA. Jeb could run and spice things up as well) . The plan of the 1960s is very much being repeated by Bush at the moment, high gov. spending on military and social acts. As for failing socialist system I’m not sure about that. Current technological development is slowing. Less R&D is being done (since perversely the 60’s), and the rate of development is slowing. Its slowing because business are focused on quick returns and quick bucks promoted by the same system that you are advocating. They are failing because long term research is not cost efficient.

Business get taxed it is the way of things, my business get taxed, I get taxed. The peverse thing is I was looking at apply to jobs in the USA and while they got much higher pay my overall rate of pay minus taxes and essentials was roughly the same in the UK and I would work less hours to boot. I had more enforced holidays which allows me to distress and unwind, and be a productive worker.