[Roscal]

We see well the limits of testing here. Swiftech made several new dozen of measurements on different systems with Apogee and Storm, data are valid (some will be made on a true processor very soon to get more data) and finally, they got opposite results according to the testbeds. What to conclude then? Yes it's a good block but is it the best? Not ! What best mean? on which system? With which others parts? Etc. Swiftech want principally to reduce costs manufacturing without reduce performances too much, they suceeded a priori and they could release good blocks at lower price, so more people could enjoy in WC because it's cheaper. It's not a Storm bis, apparence is almost the same because of their process. It's not a crime to keep a design to be their new design reference, or it's like to said "all radiators use the same design", it's the same ridiculous sentence. We need to have a global view of their decision, not only to be stubborn on performances which don't make any interesting differences on most real configurations in typical applications anyway (mounting, paste, load, etc.), some people forget this point...Swiftech is honnest and they say clearly that core geometry will affect efficiency between their 2 top notch WBs, no mystery here. Global and universal statements can't be made on a such complex field like thermal management for processors due to diversity and a lot of people here forget this point too !

Some are playing with dies which are, per definition, far from actual reality and non linear systems like true CPU with an IHS. Robotech will show soon that he got better results with Storm than Apogee on his large naked die. Does it mean Storm is always better? Absolutly not, it's better on his specific testbed, not in all the real cases and perhap's Apogee is always the best in real applications (with multiple processor geometries), who's know. Argue that Storm is the best of the best is true BS, and the same could be applied to any WB obviously, not especially to Storm. It depends of the context and if you aren't be able to understand or extrapolate what differences could be provided between different heated systems, it is because you don't know anything to thermal management, no less no more.... It makes me laugh when I see people on varied forums who are very surprised that Storm could be outperformed a bit by another WB in particular circumstances. No one made an giant & perfect WB testing with all WB worldwide to give an universal answer I believe, so why they need to impose a biased point of view? There's so much mind restrictions that it's impossible to be better for these people, false statement again. It's always the game of who gets the bigger...You look at american forums, you'll see Storm is sainted, you look at european forums, you'll see that Alphacool or others european manufacturer are sainted. Who's right? Let people choose what they want...

Sure, a heated die provides great accuracy if well done, but it ends here and correlations with reality are a real pain and not so easy as some people think. It's easy to see that comparisons between data provided by several people using a die are completly disparate generally ! Who's right? Who's false? None of them again... It depends, that's the universal answer to give you. An IHS has a role in heat flux spreading and almost all actual processors use one, you can't neglect it at all. It's not because a dozen of people pop off the IHS that it's an universal case ! The TTV Swiftech use, in parallel of the BillA's die, is surely nearer from reality than a naked die. IHS acts like a spreader (hot spots are filtered and flux on the IHS top appears to be more constant and a bit less important in terms of power density) and WBs are probably less sensitive to the core dimensions below... If you change the die area or contact, you change its behaviour too because flux are not the same (correlation are complex) and we have a good demonstration here. Is it bad? No. Personnally, I would prefer a controled testbed on real instrumented parts (mobo, processor, etc.) with multiple mounting to ensure consistency like Ph, or I, did. When after months you'll try again to measure again a WB to see if you were correct, and you get same data @+/- 0.1°C you could be happy of that, no need perfs @0.01°C in a world where designs variations are great (I don't say that precision is useless for all measurements, eh). One thing is sure, the more data you'll get from various persons, the more interesting it will be, true data are essential, assumptions or extrapolations remain extrapolations. Swiftech did that using several die systems to get more data, no complaints about that, they don't invent anything.

One key is the downscaling to achieve better convection efficiency thanks to mini/micro structure for example (next generation of Apogee will down scale probably with tinier pins), Storm and others american WB generally are enormous for nothing, 50-70% of their weight/volume is useless (it costs) and we can achieve same results and better integration with WB like my EDM protos if you know them (40x40x10mm only and I could reduce them by a factor 2 if one day I continue this project) or simple WB like MP05 or similar. But external design is a major problem because who want to have a simple small rectangular WB without bling or harmonious curves ? If these esthetics considerations were abandonned by people to keep only efficiency and simplicity, costs and manufacturing processes will be simpler, because Storm needs a lot of milling work for example. Jet impingement is a good technic (the second one with microstructures) but not an ultimate solution and principally because pumps are limited. Some tricks could be made to enhance thermal transfer and Cathar tried some, but you are always dependant of the jet speed and pressure drop related... Remember too that actual WBs are near hitting a effectiveness wall because it become more and more difficult to have a better performer, convection isn't the major factor in thermal transfer now... Apogee has some advantages in comparison of Storm for many circuits (less pressure drop, no clogging, etc.), why don't let it a chance? Not all people are restricted to get an hypothetical 0.5°C less @100W you know...

A lot of time I would say that because it hurts me when I read some headstrong people and their false perceptions. Open your mind a little, it's not a bad thing...