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gmat · 12-15-2005, 08:57 AM

Hi Bill, i was missing your grumpyness :P (and i like the new 'pro/silent' idea)

Actually our 'muslims' situation is more similar to your 'mexicans' situation: they come to Europe to escape the dire situation in their own countries, often illegally, in order to feed their own families. Nothing special here, only the usual extreme right-ists who make lots of noise about that and claim that all evil in this world is done by not-white, not-christian people, who steal our jobs and whatnot. The problem is that kind of discourse was previously held by only the extreme-right nationalists, and now it's being held by our prominent minister of interior affairs, who's basically the number #2 in our governement. This is disturbing. I understand that under fear & oppression, people revolt and start burning things at random...

Immigrants who fail to earn enough money fall into the 'poor' category and are forced to live in poor suburbs, where they are concentrated and form some kind of ghettos. Again, nothing special, every country in the world has this problem. But our dear minister threw oil on the fire by claiming it was their fault of being there, and they were all religious zealots / terrorists / etc. Of course those people felt insulted...

Can we really call our immigration process 'assimilation' ? Maybe, or maybe not. In the past we had several waves of immigration prompted by the need of construction workers (for example), that was when lots of portuguese came to France. Now about 40 years later, they have children (who are NOT automatically French !! They had to choose to become so at 18) and are a complete part of our culture. Assimilation is a strong word then, i'd use it carefully. Most children of immigrants still retain their parents' culture and language (most people i know of portuguese origins speak portuguese fluently). So basically in one generation they adapted to our culture, keeping theirs intact in the process. I think that 'adaptation' is maybe more appropriate than 'assimilation'.
What about the impact.. that would be the work of a socioligist (which i am not) and/or an economist (which i am not as well) and would lead us into pages long discussions...

12-15-2005, 08:57 AM	#73
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Re: thoughts on the French troubles ? Hi Bill, i was missing your grumpyness :P (and i like the new 'pro/silent' idea) Actually our 'muslims' situation is more similar to your 'mexicans' situation: they come to Europe to escape the dire situation in their own countries, often illegally, in order to feed their own families. Nothing special here, only the usual extreme right-ists who make lots of noise about that and claim that all evil in this world is done by not-white, not-christian people, who steal our jobs and whatnot. The problem is that kind of discourse was previously held by only the extreme-right nationalists, and now it's being held by our prominent minister of interior affairs, who's basically the number #2 in our governement. This is disturbing. I understand that under fear & oppression, people revolt and start burning things at random... Immigrants who fail to earn enough money fall into the 'poor' category and are forced to live in poor suburbs, where they are concentrated and form some kind of ghettos. Again, nothing special, every country in the world has this problem. But our dear minister threw oil on the fire by claiming it was their fault of being there, and they were all religious zealots / terrorists / etc. Of course those people felt insulted... Can we really call our immigration process 'assimilation' ? Maybe, or maybe not. In the past we had several waves of immigration prompted by the need of construction workers (for example), that was when lots of portuguese came to France. Now about 40 years later, they have children (who are NOT automatically French !! They had to choose to become so at 18) and are a complete part of our culture. Assimilation is a strong word then, i'd use it carefully. Most children of immigrants still retain their parents' culture and language (most people i know of portuguese origins speak portuguese fluently). So basically in one generation they adapted to our culture, keeping theirs intact in the process. I think that 'adaptation' is maybe more appropriate than 'assimilation'. What about the impact.. that would be the work of a socioligist (which i am not) and/or an economist (which i am not as well) and would lead us into pages long discussions...