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Unread 11-22-2003, 11:14 PM   #37
Blackeagle
Thermophile
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: U.S.A = Michigan
Posts: 1,243
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Quote:
Originally posted by winewood
LOL! Narrowly define the testing to a single SMALL market. Now constrict what we know of your definition of an engineer in this market is to that scenario. Now use that to reason away the entire findings of that NPR program. You wish it could be so easy.
Homework? Try accepting that data on a whole can apply to even small insignifcant markets as well as the larger ones. Since that article was directed to 'engineers' who are selling products and THAT effecting reviews, please tell us what company you work for and profit from pHestus to think yourself included in the brush that joemac paints.
If you don't apply to the conversation as to the scenario, then feel free to exclude yourself from the picture, or explain who you are paid by. Now consider this for ONE moment. Bill is what you call 'picky' and an a$$blaster regarding imperfection. I don't think there is even a word for it on this forum. Maybe if it was printed out it would be represented in **** due to filters. HOWEVER, the single fact that he is not bashing and TEARING up Swiftechs inner workings on this forum and products considering the unrestricted access he has proves it is being held in check. Now tie that to a paycheck. Now admit that ALL data isn't being published regarding the hidden skeletons in that HUGE closet at Swiftech. Balls to bone it isn't ALL pretty. Yet the non-pretty data isnt being focused on in multiple forums and detailed graphs by yours truely. In fact that is not even considered for publishing. NOW you have the bias that is motivated by money.
Who am I to point fingers?? A nobody, because I would do the exact same thing. I am at least honest enough to call it 'bias' linked to financial gain. Hell, offer me a bean burrito to keep quiet on a review from me, and you bought a LOAD of silence.

And this ISNT a bill bashing forum. I think its a lesson in waking up to fact, and you can apply it to any company. Don't want to be a part of the broad brush? Stop your paycheck.
Bill Adams can be described, and with language that should pass the filters.

Bill, IMO, can be described as focused, intense (perhaps even driven), and goal oriented. And his goal is accuracy, and he is continually working towards ever greater accuracy by demanding of himself ever greater precesion in every single test he runs & measurment he takes. Errors are to be eliminated ruthlessly, and those who would push error ridden "reviews" or pose as experts, but spew BS on the public stand in the way of what I believe Bill wants to see come of his efforts. And for sure this leads to Bill having a short fuse with some of those spewing BS, sometimes extremely short fused.

He wants honest & accurate testing to take the place of all the BS reviews we have now. Right now you can count the number of real bench testers on one hand. Now that is sad, and needs correction.

I've seen Bill many times help a poster who is ignorant on the topic of water cooling. God knows I sure was when first I came here. Bill can in fact be a pretty good teacher, when he has a student that is interested more in learning than spouting out BS. Bill's BS detector is a rather quick reaction factor in all this. And Bill is sure enough outspoken when he's calling someone on posting what is BS.

Jaydee has a even faster reaction factor at times. To many noobs at one time, or worse perhaps, the Player0's, seem to be regarded as a curse on all he finds worthwhile in this hobby.

And sometimes the flustration of the whole thing gets to them both and they may use a verbal fire storm where perhaps a word of repeated correction would have served better.

What I find rather amazing is that pH very seldom lets loose, as he did a few posts back regarding your attacks.

Those who are into bench testing Winewood don't do it for the money. They spend more in TIME and money than they are ever compensated for. And that includes Bill as well as pH & JoeC. Bill has spent far more of his money, and his TIME than he's likely to recoup for several more years, if ever. JoeC is the only one I think may be covering his expenses with enough left over to compensate him at all well for his effort, and only due to his running a major web site for this hobby.

And Winewood, the very reason Bill no longer tests for a range of companys & individuals isn't due to his being biased, it's due to his knowing many would have that perception, regardless what his findings were.

The saddest part of your above post is that at the end, you show that YOU would do what you accuse Bill wrongly of. I think that yourself and JoeMac need to step back and reconsider what you are typing before you post some of it. It seems to me that what is coming ever more clear is that you both attack Bill for what you KNOW you'd be doing in his place, not for anything he's actually done.

And while you claim Bill should be attacking Swiftech in public to keep his unbiased position in YOUR eyes, only a fool would do as you suggest. And Bill isn't a fool. Don't you think that some of the new items Swiftech is coming out with shows his influance? And I suspect his influance there started sometime prior to his being employed there. Look at the new MCW5002 block, note it's lowered top, for greater turbulence and water velocity. I seem to recall seeing a modded Swiftech block over a year ago that Bill did, and tested in one of his articles at OverClockers. Not a surprise Swiftech acted on the ideas put forward. And is not the 600 series pump, the very poster child for the sort of pump Bill has promoted for a long time now? ONly a idiot attacks his employer in public, that is not the way to effect change. You effect change from within a company, by advancing your ideas, to improve what may well be wrong with the companys operations or products. And every valued contribution you make, paves the way for further chances to advance your ideas for making both the company and it's product better. Bill hasn't been at Swiftech long enough to effect sweeping change, you can't drop whole product lines without having new products researched and ready to replace them. And yes, even Bill needs a good bit of time to do those things. Wait and see what other changes in Swiftech's murchandise comes about in the next year. I expect to see a number of changes happen, for both the company's and our (consumers) benifit.

One last thought for you Winewood and JoeMac, as you seem to have decided that it's time for the sh!t to hit the fan, you really should have noted that you were standing in front of the fan, prior to shoveling in sh!t. :shrug:

Last edited by Blackeagle; 11-22-2003 at 11:37 PM.
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