TC-4 vs Spir@l

[Randland]

Hello all, I was referred here from the Bit-tech forums regarding what people felt of the TC-4 and the Spir@l. I am planning on getting a water cooling system soon here, and I have decided to stay away from Maze3 due to the recent problems they have been having. I plan on purchasing either the TC-4 or the Spir@l, but I was wondering if they have ever been compared?:shrug:

Thanks for the help

[bigben2k]

I haven't seen any comparison, but here's a theoretical one:

The spiral was designed with the theory that a higher flow rate will give better results.

The TC-4 was designed with the theory that a turbulated (or disrupted) flow will give better results.

Of course you could apply both theories by getting a very powerful pump and a TC-4.

[Randland]

Originally posted by bigben2k
I haven't seen any comparison, but here's a theoretical one:

The spiral was designed with the theory that a higher flow rate will give better results.

The TC-4 was designed with the theory that a turbulated (or disrupted) flow will give better results.

Of course you could apply both theories by getting a very powerful pump and a TC-4.

But I have also heard that more powerful was not always better, the systems needed to be matched. I was planning on an Eheim 1048, 1/2" Tygon tubing, DangerDen GF4 block, Black Ice Extreme Radiator, and either the TC-4 or the Spir@l. Does anyone see any problem with this setup?

[Skulemate]

Originally posted by bigben2k
Of course you could apply both theories by getting a very powerful pump and a TC-4.

Exactly what I was planning on doing... I'll post sume numbers when I get everything together and running.

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by Randland


But I have also heard that more powerful was not always better, the systems needed to be matched. I was planning on an Eheim 1048, 1/2" Tygon tubing, DangerDen GF4 block, Black Ice Extreme Radiator, and either the TC-4 or the Spir@l. Does anyone see any problem with this setup?

I think the Black Ice radiators are WAY over-rated. A good copper heater core is cheaper and cools better. I would suggest D-Teks core with the shroud.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by Randland


But I have also heard that more powerful was not always better, the systems needed to be matched. I was planning on an Eheim 1048, 1/2" Tygon tubing, DangerDen GF4 block, Black Ice Extreme Radiator, and either the TC-4 or the Spir@l. Does anyone see any problem with this setup?

...and I used to say that myself, until we all got into the argument, and (finally/eventually) figured out that that was wrong.

Higher flow is better. An effective flow of 100 gph is good, and some people would advance that 200 gph (effective) is worth the expense. I'm still trying to find a cost effective solution...

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by nikhsub1

I think the Black Ice radiators are WAY over-rated. A good copper heater core is cheaper and cools better. I would suggest D-Teks core with the shroud.

I agree. I think that the BI products are good if you're looking for an easy fit in your case, and if you like the pruddy colors.

Otherwise, any heatercore can beat it. They're cheaper, but do require a little T&T (tool and time). If you put it to me, I'd rather spend $20 on a HC, and put in a bit of T&T, rather than forking out $50, but hey, that's just me...

[Pinkster]

with radiators (heatercore style ie. multiple parallel channel 1 or 2 pass radiators such as a black ice) simply bigger is better, the larger the surface area the better the cooling, and hopefully given the parallel channels most heatercores will have simalar (very low) flow restriction. to get bigger surface area you either get a physically bigger heatercore, or you get a heatercore with more folds per inch (fpi).
the black ice extreme has 16fpi, which is abotu average, the 6x6x2 popular heatercore has 12fpi, heatercores are known to go up to 24fpi as far as im aware (the toyota camry heatercore is 24fpi). also the black ice extreme is physically small, and although it is a heatercore style radiator, so it is good for its size, a much larger surface area radiator can be up to 2 degrees better.


the waterblock you use will depend on the pump (and pipe?) size you use. a waterblock with a large water channel area will work better with a high powered pump than a waterblock with a narrower channel, and alternatively with smaller pump, a block with a narrower water channel will work better than a block with a wide water channel.

for example a spir@l which has a pretty large water channel will need a big pump for optimum results. i will not speculate on big a pump this needs to be, this could not be determined without tests, although perhaps a little giant pump of some kind would be perfect?

a tc-4 i think (correct me if im wrong) has a slightly narrower water channel than a spir@l, so it should be more suited to a smaller pump, perhaps an eheim 1250 or equivalent. it still may perform slightly better with a bigger pump, however this difference will not be as great compared to the difference noticed when using a bigger pump on a larger channeled block.
of course, this is assuming the blocks have the same design, which they clearly do not, so there will be many other factors effecting the differences between two temperatures, so in fact one or the other could perform better for all pump sizes.

still, channel width is one very significant factor when considering a waterblock, if you want to get that pump that is normally found in a high pressure cleaner then consider a large channeled block such as a spir@l, if you would prefer a smaller eheim 1048, then a small channeled block,such as a gemini block would be better suited.

basically just dont get a huge pump for a gemini, or a piddly pump for a spir@l, get the pump to match your block, or the block to match your pump

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by Pinkster
the waterblock you use will depend on the pump (and pipe?) size you use. a waterblock with a large water channel area will work better with a high powered pump than a waterblock with a narrower channel, and alternatively with smaller pump, a block with a narrower water channel will work better than a block with a wide water channel.

for example a spir@l which has a pretty large water channel will need a big pump for optimum results. i will not speculate on big a pump this needs to be, this could not be determined without tests, although perhaps a little giant pump of some kind would be perfect?

a tc-4 i think (correct me if im wrong) has a slightly narrower water channel than a spir@l, so it should be more suited to a smaller pump, perhaps an eheim 1250 or equivalent.

I disagree.

First off, I don't believe that the waterblock one uses depends on the pump. I think that it's the other way around.

Second, the pump selection depends on what flow you are trying to achieve, and since the waterblock is by far the biggest restriction, the pump should be selected as a function of that.

We haven't had this debate yet, but the effective flow rates that most people achieve, is somewhere around 100 GPH, regardless of the pump they use. Some people have posted some preliminary results that indicate that an effective flow rate around 200 gph is the best that one can shoot for, for results that are significantly better (300 gph would probably be a waste of money, because the benefit decreases exponentially).

So knowing how much of a restriction the waterblock will cause, will give you an idea of what kind of pump to get.

For the budget conscious, the biggest you can afford is the way to go.