Pumps?

[Susikoira]

Greetings to you all,

I was wondering whether the Eheim 1048 would be strong enough to power a little water cooling system I'm building.

The setup consists of an Athlon 2400+ and Radeon 9700 Pro,
a CPU waterblock with flow restriction similar to Cathar's White Water block,
DangerDen's GPU block for the Radeon,
and two Camry heater cores by Denso, in parallel,
all connected via 1/2" ID tubings and cramped into a fairly small case with short distances between components.

...would Eheim 1048 pump be sufficient, or is the 1250 a necessity in order to assure acceptable flow rate through the system? My goal is to make this system quiet yet decently performing, and I assume that the 1250 is somewhat louder than the 1048. I've read here that the Iwaki pumps tend to be louder than the 1250, and so I would prefer to stick with the Eheims

[Blackeagle]

With dual cores and also two or more blocks, might want to look at a Iwaki MD-15, it has nearly double the pressure of the 1250.

[Susikoira]

I've considered the MD-15 and it looks good, but how is it's noise level compared to the 1250? Also I recall someone recommending the Nursery Pro pumps -- how would they stack up to the Iwakis and Eheims?

If the pump is powerful enough I might add a northbridge waterblock to the setup, but the preference is to keep the pump quiet and that might mean a smaller pump.

[RoboTech]

IMHO the E-1250 would be a better match for the components you have selected. Depending how restrictive your CPU waterblock is, you might indeed want to consider the Iwaki MD-15R - it will give you 2X the discharge head as the E-1250, which will translate to better flow and potentially better temps...

Good luck,

[myv65]

Originally posted by Susikoira
My goal is to make this system quiet yet decently performing

You need to define this a little more. In terms of temperatures, the difference between pumps is pretty minor compared to the difference in ambient temperatures that people have. Specifically, going from the 1048 to the 1250 generally means a change on the order of 1°C, yet people have room temperatures that range from 18°C to 25°C. Unless that extra °C means a lot to you, you'll do just fine with a 1048.

[Susikoira]

You need to define this a little more. In terms of temperatures, the difference between pumps is pretty minor compared to the difference in ambient temperatures that people have. Specifically, going from the 1048 to the 1250 generally means a change on the order of 1°C, yet people have room temperatures that range from 18°C to 25°C. Unless that extra °C means a lot to you, you'll do just fine with a 1048.

My apologies for not being more clear on this subject. Let me rephrase a bit what the general idea of mine is for this project..

First off, I think the room temperatures will be around 24°C to 25°C, though I'mna to try my best to ensure that the systems will be in an environment with cooler air. However, these computers will not be tremendeously overclocked, so the need for extreme cooling is not present at the moment. Now, why two radiators and the works, then? I am aware that two rads is an overkill for the kind of a setup we'll have for the moment, however since these things will be built inside — and partially outside — of a Lian-Li PC-60 case (they're the perfect size for the compartments they'll be in; those compartments also possibly allow the comps to be in cooler air than the rest of the room), and stored inside a special compartment, I plan to build so much overcapacity into the cooling system that when the time does come, in the future, to exploit the 100W+ CPU du jour and the 75W+ GeforceFX killer to the umpteenth factor with pelts and all, there wouldn't be a need for more extensive case modifications and the cooling system would be able to handle that with simple upgrades like switching the pump to an Iwaki MD-15/20 or the equivalent. It is also my hope that with that overcapacity the system would be able to run currently without too hefty (and noisy) pumps and with quiet fans.

A lot of this system is being built for the future rather than the present. That's why I'd like to know whether a small pump like the E-1048 would be sufficient for now. I'm also toying with the idea of ditching the (hefty, copper) passive heatsink on the northbridge and replacing it with a waterblock, though I assume that would mandate an E-1250 as a minimum to ensure proper water flow.

At the moment, this is what I've envisioned the ordering of the setup to look like:
=> fill/bleed assembly => pump => CPU => GPU (=> NB?) => Rad 1 & 2 =>
..though I'm working on what'd be the best way in this instance to execute the fill/bleed mechanism, so any and all of it might change. Any comments on this?

(also on the subject of quietness and the sources of noise in the system, the hard drives are silenced by suspending them from the frame of the chassis with elastic bands — that'll keep them fairly quiet )

[RoboTech]

In regards to noise, I would rate the three pumps you are considering:
E-1048 very quiet (hard to tell if it is running or not)
E-1250 quiet (just noticable)
Iwaki MD-15R (just slightly more noisy than the E-1250)

The two Eheims will produce about the same max discharge heads. The 1250 has a higher rated flow, but if your system is restricted enough (back pressure) you won't see any more flow with the 1250 than the 1048 would give (plus a little more heat from the larger 1250 motor). If your series setup is particularly flow restrictive, you may need the added discharge head of the Iwaki to obtain an acceptable flowrate. It will depend on the waterblocks you choose, the flow resistance, series or parallel, etc.

[Jim]

Where are people buying the MD-15 pump?
Jim

[RoboTech]

I get mine thru Cole-Parmer Instrument Co. (I can get a discount thru work). They carry all the models and with MD motors as well...

It's a little hard to figure out what's what as they don't list the Iwaki model number but by comparing specs you can figure it out. The MD-15R with 1/2" hose barbs is C-P # SY-72010-20F

[Jim]

Thanks Robo-
About how much are they and how big are they?
Jim

[Susikoira]

The Iwaki MD-15R(T) is 3.74" by 4.49" by 7.05". You can get the product spec sheet in PDF form from Iwaki Walchem website, link here. That's also a decent place for all kinds of info about their pumps - keep in mind though that the WMD-models are made in the U.S. by Walchem, whereas the MD-models are Japanese-made by Iwaki. Supposedly the only difference is that the U.S. made pumps are slightly longer (the WMD-15 is 8" instead of 7.05") but I'll stick with the Japanese made ones personally. Here's the link to Iwaki-Walchem website.

Thank you, RoboTech, by the way, on your comments on the pumps and the setup. I'm rehashing some ideas and trying to piece the thing together, the scatterbrain that I am; however, the more and more I think of it the more convinced I am that I could get away with an 1048 for the time being. Especially after reading some of the work here, especially what roscal wrote about the pressure drops in multiple radiators in parallel.

I have a couple of random thoughts on how to arrange all the elements of the cooling system, but a lot of confusion as well. I think I will draft some pictures..

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by Jim
Thanks Robo-
About how much are they and how big are they?
Jim

This may give you some perspective, this pic is of the MD-15R with my drive cage removed so you can see the pump. The fans you see are 120mm:



And here it is with the drive cages installed:

[Jim]

Thanks for the info guys.
Jim