What gas do you use.

Jessfm · 09-07-2002, 08:09 PM

Just interested in what gas you run in your rigs.
R22 is about to be banned in EU, so don't think Ill bother there.
Reading up looking likely R410a ?????

Any sugestions

*mat-ster* · 09-08-2002, 10:03 AM

Hi Jess,

U probably already know this but Chip-Con use "Refrigerant: Environmental friendly R134A".

HCF 134a
The production of R-22 or Chlorodifluoromethane is being phased out (pun intended)

Here is the info on Tetrafluoroethane (R134a)
http://www.dupont.com/suva/na/usa/aa/

Danfoss http://www.danfoss-maneurop.com/inte...unction=refrig

Jessfm · 09-08-2002, 10:12 AM

Yeah currently got R134a myself, but TBH its not that good.
Supprised chipcon use it - but thanks for answering that, i did wounder

aenigma · 09-08-2002, 11:28 PM

Yeah R134 is a horrible refrigerant though.
I very cheap easy refrigerant to use is R290(propane).Works great,I use it in all my systems.Beats the pants off of r134a any day

bigben2k · 09-09-2002, 09:29 AM

Check out this link for the various types of refrigerants.

They won't tell you which one is best, but it's a start. I hear that R-409A is good, but apparently hard to get.

*mat-ster* · 09-13-2002, 04:37 PM

Propane is flammable R134A is not!

As you already know Phase change cooling efficiency is determined by the pressure? the R used is less important than the compressor spec, however I do agree that 404A is a better option for this application in europe (Ozone friendly).

aenigma · 09-13-2002, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by *mat-ster*
Propane is flammable R134A is not!

As you already know Phase change cooling efficiency is determined by the pressure? the R used is less important than the compressor spec, however I do agree that 404A is a better option for this application in europe (Ozone friendly).

Nice logic.
Who cares if propane is flammable?If you have any brains at all you wont hurt yourself

bigben2k · 09-13-2002, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aenigma
Nice logic.
Who cares if propane is flammable?If you have any brains at all you wont hurt yourself

That's what Punisher said, then he heat stressed his system with a torch.

We never saw him again

bigben2k · 09-13-2002, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aenigma
Nice logic.
Who cares if propane is flammable?If you have any brains at all you wont hurt yourself

Propane is dangerous, in more ways than one. The smallest leak will wake you up at night, or when you turn on the light switch, first thing in the morning...

There are better, and safer alternatives. Propane is just not a smart choice, any way you look at it.

aenigma · 09-13-2002, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
Propane is dangerous, in more ways than one. The smallest leak will wake you up at night, or when you turn on the light switch, first thing in the morning...

There are better, and safer alternatives. Propane is just not a smart choice, any way you look at it.

Wrong.
I have emptied systems and went right ahead and brazed things on the same system.Propane is NOT as flammble as you think,you can go ahead and think what you want.But until you actually try using it,you can't comment.Although it does smell bad

I talked to punisher after he soldered his while it was full of propane(not something you usually want to do) and it just made a fireball....Big deal.
Oh by the way he got banned from here,thats why you havent heard from him

R290 is a safe refrigerant if you know what your doing.Even if it had a slow leak over night and you turned your light switch on,what do you think would happen?Nothing,thats what would happen.
I have had my room full of propane,smells horrible,but I didnt get some crazy out of control fire.

They make alot of propane based refrigerants too.Propane makes fire if introduced to flame,freon makes a poisenous gas.
So dont go around using your torch on a full system

*mat-ster* · 09-13-2002, 07:48 PM

I could link the specs on these materials you mention and explain why R134A and R404A have better thermodynamic properties for phase change cooling.

Perhaps I could persuade you to give the other refrigerants a try I think you would be surprised!

In the UK there are laws about usin / handling these materials(for H,S & Environmental reasons) This is what Jessfm's original post was about!

aenigma · 09-13-2002, 08:16 PM

Hey,I never said R290 was the holy grail of refrigerants did I?I just said it is a cheap refrigerant(8 bucks for 30 pounds).And it is damn cold.

R134a is NOT better than R290,I have used both.R134a is a medium temp refrigerant.R290 lacks molecular weight,that is why it doesnt perfrom as good as say R22.If R22 wasnt so expensive I would be using it,trust me.But I ran out of R22....
R290 definitely owns R134a!

So your telling me propane is banned where you live?

I know r290 is not legal to be used in commercial refrigeration,but in DIY it does not matter.

SonixOS · 09-13-2002, 09:47 PM

I personally thought about changing from R22 to R502. Its pretty good reliable one. It was widely used like 10 yrs ago dunno what happened. Another interesting one is R408 i think. Anhydrous Ammonia is the name. Very TOXIC! But will achieve very low temps.

DoGMaN · 09-22-2002, 10:44 AM

R407c is pretty nice. And if you can get it HC-12a is really cheap and works pretty well.

bigben2k · 09-22-2002, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aenigma
I have emptied systems and went right ahead and brazed things on the same system.Propane is NOT as flammble as you think,you can go ahead and think what you want.But until you actually try using it,you can't comment.Although it does smell bad

I talked to punisher after he soldered his while it was full of propane(not something you usually want to do) and it just made a fireball....Big deal.
Oh by the way he got banned from here,thats why you havent heard from him

R290 is a safe refrigerant if you know what your doing.Even if it had a slow leak over night and you turned your light switch on,what do you think would happen?Nothing,thats what would happen.

I have had my room full of propane,smells horrible,but I didnt get some crazy out of control fire.

|Punisher| was banned for promoting the use of propane as a refrigerant, while clearly not taking the time to discuss the dangers, nor the safety measures required to handle/use it safely. He was wreckless, period.

If you have HVAC training, then I would encourage you to share the RELEVANT information, instead of blindly promoting R290 (propane). Otherwise, you will get banned too.

And no, testing a theory by pressing a torch against a system loaded with propane DOES NOT constitute relevant experience/knowledge. It was, and still is foolish to try it.

This "little fireball" may not seem to be a big deal to you, but for everyone else out there, it could become one, as it ignites something else, starting a REAL fire.

As for your room being full of propane, you certainly did get lucky. Had a fire started, you would not be around to tell us about it, now would you?

aenigma · 09-22-2002, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
|Punisher| was banned for promoting the use of propane as a refrigerant, while clearly not taking the time to discuss the dangers, nor the safety measures required to handle/use it safely. He was wreckless, period.

If you have HVAC training, then I would encourage you to share the RELEVANT information, instead of blindly promoting R290 (propane). Otherwise, you will get banned too.

And no, testing a theory by pressing a torch against a system loaded with propane DOES NOT constitute relevant experience/knowledge. It was, and still is foolish to try it.

This "little fireball" may not seem to be a big deal to you, but for everyone else out there, it could become one, as it ignites something else, starting a REAL fire.

As for your room being full of propane, you certainly did get lucky. Had a fire started, you would not be around to tell us about it, now would you?

Well you see, I am not punisher.
Uhm he got banned for flaming.He gets banned for flaming everywhere he goes.Trying to promote R290 is no reason to get banned,even HVAC techs carry it.I am not blindly promoting it.I actual handle the stuff,you probably dont even come near it.

IMO if you cant seal your system up,and worry about it leaking.You shouldnt be playing with this stuff, or you should learn to braze.

Also he wasnt testing a theory by putting a torch to it,as far as I know he forgot it had propane in it.Not a good thing really.Usually in a running phase change system you dont have a torch on a solder point, so i wouldnt worry about that

If it would have been R22 it would have created a deadly gas mmmmm sounds great..... little wanna be torch or deadly gas,lets just think about that?

Why dont YOU tell me the disadvantages to R290 after actually using it?Hell, have you even built a system?
Alot of refrigerants are made with propane.I read somewhere R290 is used in the UK.(commercial freezers I believe)

Doesnt matter, I am not forcing anyone to use it, just trying to open their eyes to a good cheap refrigerant.Sure you have to take precautions, like learning how to braze so your system doesnt leak would be good.Just dont be an idiot with the stuff and you will be fine.Same with R12 R22 etc. dont sniff it....

Be nice if you could give me some RELEVANT information why I should not use it.I have had nothing bad go wrong, other than that sulfar smell.Also why the hell would you have an ignition source near your phase change system?

bigben2k · 09-22-2002, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aenigma
IMO if you cant seal your system up,and worry about it leaking.You shouldnt be playing with this stuff, or you should learn to braze.

Quote:

Also he wasnt testing a theory by putting a torch to it,as far as I know he forgot it had propane in it.Not a good thing really.

Quote:

If it would have been R22 it would have created a deadly gas mmmmm sounds great..... little wanna be torch or deadly gas,lets just think about that?

Quote:

Sure you have to take precautions, like learning how to braze so your system doesnt leak would be good. Just dont be an idiot with the stuff and you will be fine.Same with R12 R22 etc. dont sniff it....

Quote:

...why the hell would you have an ignition source near your phase change system?

That's the kind of useful information I'm talking about!

Welcome to ProCooling.

aenigma · 09-23-2002, 01:35 AM

haha I see, I thought you were just bitching at me

Thanks for the welcome(although I have been here for awhile)

bigben2k · 09-23-2002, 07:31 PM

Here's a link to the US department of Transportation, on HAZMAT.

Hazardous Material handling precaution.
(go down to the refrigerant section)

You'll find usefull info, including wether the refrigerant can be ignited with a spark, if it creates a toxic substance if burned, and general precautions.

DoGMaN · 09-27-2002, 03:53 PM

I've been playing with some 1,1 difluoroethane. Seems to be a pretty good refrigerant. Its really cheap. It is extremely flamable though. Or so it says on teh warning label.

jtroutma · 09-27-2002, 04:17 PM

If anyone is interested, I seem to remember that over at Overclockers.com that someone put up an article going into great detail about building a phase excahnge system. The design part is not what is important with most of you HOWEVER the author went into details about almost a dozen refrigerants that can be used and even the boiling points on most of them. Might not be a bad idea to check it out.

Just a thought, that's all......

The story header is called "How-To Build A Refrigerator CPU Cooler"

Enjoy freezing your machines

bigben2k · 09-27-2002, 04:52 PM

You missed this thread

jtroutma · 09-27-2002, 05:15 PM

Opps...forgot

mfpmax · 09-27-2002, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by *mat-ster*
Propane is flammable R134A is not!

But propane is used to make R134A work better in auto application.

Since 134A itslef sucks ass for cooling, it needs a helper to achieve the same performance of R12.

Thats why R134A boosters have a flammable warning on them, they are propane based.

Jessfm · 10-12-2002, 11:28 PM

What about Home brew's ??

R290 with R134 , say 40/60%

09-07-2002, 08:09 PM	#1
Jessfm Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 110	What gas do you use. Just interested in what gas you run in your rigs. R22 is about to be banned in EU, so don't think Ill bother there. Reading up looking likely R410a ????? Any sugestions

09-08-2002, 10:03 AM	#2
mat-ster Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 30	Hi Jess, U probably already know this but Chip-Con use "Refrigerant: Environmental friendly R134A". HCF 134a The production of R-22 or Chlorodifluoromethane is being phased out (pun intended) Here is the info on Tetrafluoroethane (R134a) http://www.dupont.com/suva/na/usa/aa/ Danfoss http://www.danfoss-maneurop.com/inte...unction=refrig Last edited by mat-ster; 09-08-2002 at 10:11 AM.

09-09-2002, 09:29 AM	#5
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Check out this link for the various types of refrigerants. They won't tell you which one is best, but it's a start. I hear that R-409A is good, but apparently hard to get. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-13-2002, 09:47 PM	#13
SonixOS Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 282	I personally thought about changing from R22 to R502. Its pretty good reliable one. It was widely used like 10 yrs ago dunno what happened. Another interesting one is R408 i think. Anhydrous Ammonia is the name. Very TOXIC! But will achieve very low temps. __________________ -sonix- ======================= Antec SX830 Abit KR7A-133 MSI Geforce3 Ti200 VT128 TV-IN and TV-OUT Sound Blaster Audigy Linksys LNE100 V2.0 Toshiba DVD Drive 40x/16x IBM Deskstar 60GXP 60gig Watercooled http://www.sonixnet.tk =======================

09-22-2002, 10:44 AM	#14
DoGMaN Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Honeymoon Capital of the world Posts: 16	R407c is pretty nice. And if you can get it HC-12a is really cheap and works pretty well. __________________ www.thecrucible.ca

09-08-2002, 10:12 AM	#3
Jessfm Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 110	Yeah currently got R134a myself, but TBH its not that good. Supprised chipcon use it - but thanks for answering that, i did wounder

09-08-2002, 11:28 PM	#4
aenigma Immature Title Goes Here Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Washington Posts: 81	Yeah R134 is a horrible refrigerant though. I very cheap easy refrigerant to use is R290(propane).Works great,I use it in all my systems.Beats the pants off of r134a any day

09-13-2002, 04:37 PM	#6
mat-ster Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 30	Propane is flammable R134A is not! As you already know Phase change cooling efficiency is determined by the pressure? the R used is less important than the compressor spec, however I do agree that 404A is a better option for this application in europe (Ozone friendly).

09-13-2002, 07:48 PM	#11
mat-ster Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 30	I could link the specs on these materials you mention and explain why R134A and R404A have better thermodynamic properties for phase change cooling. Perhaps I could persuade you to give the other refrigerants a try I think you would be surprised! In the UK there are laws about usin / handling these materials(for H,S & Environmental reasons) This is what Jessfm's original post was about!

09-13-2002, 08:16 PM	#12
aenigma Immature Title Goes Here Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Washington Posts: 81	Hey,I never said R290 was the holy grail of refrigerants did I?I just said it is a cheap refrigerant(8 bucks for 30 pounds).And it is damn cold. R134a is NOT better than R290,I have used both.R134a is a medium temp refrigerant.R290 lacks molecular weight,that is why it doesnt perfrom as good as say R22.If R22 wasnt so expensive I would be using it,trust me.But I ran out of R22.... R290 definitely owns R134a! So your telling me propane is banned where you live? I know r290 is not legal to be used in commercial refrigeration,but in DIY it does not matter.

09-23-2002, 01:35 AM	#18
aenigma Immature Title Goes Here Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Washington Posts: 81	haha I see, I thought you were just bitching at me Thanks for the welcome(although I have been here for awhile) __________________ http://www.subz3ro.net [H]opelessly  Altered  Results  Destroy  Overall  Credibility  Period

09-23-2002, 07:31 PM	#19
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Here's a link to the US department of Transportation, on HAZMAT. Hazardous Material handling precaution. (go down to the refrigerant section) You'll find usefull info, including wether the refrigerant can be ignited with a spark, if it creates a toxic substance if burned, and general precautions. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-27-2002, 03:53 PM	#20
DoGMaN Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Honeymoon Capital of the world Posts: 16	I've been playing with some 1,1 difluoroethane. Seems to be a pretty good refrigerant. Its really cheap. It is extremely flamable though. Or so it says on teh warning label. __________________ www.thecrucible.ca

09-27-2002, 04:17 PM	#21
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	If anyone is interested, I seem to remember that over at Overclockers.com that someone put up an article going into great detail about building a phase excahnge system. The design part is not what is important with most of you HOWEVER the author went into details about almost a dozen refrigerants that can be used and even the boiling points on most of them. Might not be a bad idea to check it out. Just a thought, that's all...... The story header is called "How-To Build A Refrigerator CPU Cooler" Enjoy freezing your machines __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

09-27-2002, 04:52 PM	#22
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	You missed this thread __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-27-2002, 05:15 PM	#23
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	Opps...forgot __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

10-12-2002, 11:28 PM	#25
Jessfm Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 110	What about Home brew's ?? R290 with R134 , say 40/60%

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