help regarding peltier

[bbaall]

hi, i am designing a water cooled system with peltier coolers to cool the water outside the case, without fans(as i want to build a complete silent system). but i dont have much technical knowledge about calculating the heat dissipation or flowrate or peltier selection. can i get ome help regarding the formulae needed to find the perfect peltier.
thanks

[billbartuska]

What are you going to use to cool the peltier?
Peltier coolers have fans, don't they?

[ben333]

I'd have to agree with bill on that one. Even a silent fan that barely moves air helps, consider it. The best way to do it (in my mind) is just get fans quieter than the hard drive. Now I think the rule with todays processors is you want the pelt to be about twice the wattage so on a 95 watt CPU you probably want a 200 watt pelt. But keep in mind that now you have near 300 watts of heat to remove. I suppose with a couple large heater cores / radiators it may be possible but it would be terry hard to cool several peltiers and the computer passively. Another thing, your electric bill is about to get a lot higher Now all of what I just said is if you want to slap the pelt right on the processor. If you want to build a chiller then you can probably use low wattage peltiers and passively cool them with large heat sinks. Now I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the formula for the prefect peltier but if you happen to be cooling an intel processor, head over to their website because they tell the heat output of the processor. Then as I have been told (but may be wrong) you want a peltier of twice the processors wattage to go right on the processor. But a pelt of any wattage can help water cooling but remember if you don't cover that however many watts of heat you have then you still must have a radiator. Also in case you were wondering I strongly recommend a pump.

[bbaall]

well thanks a lot ben333 and billbartuska for your replies, ben i am actually not gonna be installing the peltiers on the processor but outside the case to cool the water, for cooling the processor i will be using the normal water cooling with pump and reservior but instead of using fans to cool the water in radiator i will be installing the peltier coolers, so my question really is how much peltier cooler will be enough to cool the water and what effect the flowrate of water makes to the temprature of the hot water. and yes i will be cooling the pentium 4 processor computer. so are there any formulae to decide the peltier or is it just hit and tiral thing.
thanks

[billbartuska]

OK, now I'm confused. How are you going to use the peltier to cool a radiator?
Most people that do what you are trying to do (use a peltier to cool the water) attach the peltier to the reservoir, ...which you could mount outside of the case.

as for the calculations, while appearing to be simple unit conversions (CPU watts to *C of the water), they are compounded by the fact that the peltiers cooling is constant, but the heat generated by the CPU varies with load. You may want to make sure that at the lowest CPU load, the peltier won't reduce the water's temperature to below the dewpoint of the ambient air, or condensation will start to appear, and, as we all know, water + electronics = $$$$. Of course insulation is an option. Then you are only limited by the ability of the pump to continue to move the ever thickening (as it cools) liquid.

Soooooo You have to decide what you want to do before you can start figuring out how to get there.
What CPU temp at what CPU load are you shooting for?

I don't think you understand how a peltier works. When you apply current to a peltier one side gets cold, but the other side gets hot. In order for the peltier to function as you envision it (cool the radiator), you have to provide a means for removing the heat from the hot side of the peltier. That is usually done with a heatsink (with or without a fan) or with a waterblock and water cooling system.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by bbaall

ben i am actually not gonna be installing the peltiers on the processor but outside the case to cool the water, for cooling the processor i will be using the normal water cooling with pump and reservior but instead of using fans to cool the water in radiator i will be installing the peltier coolers

Well you are not trying mounting pelts to a radiator i assume. That would be illogical. What it sounds like you want to do is make a water chiller with the pelts. Something like this: http://www.wpngnc.org/chiller.htm

[jman1310]

don't waste your $$$ on pelts, they are very inefficient. buy a smaller dorm fridge and remove the cooling elements from it or just place the rad in the freezer portion...

likely to be cheaper and simpler to in act.


ps druckeren post are fun to tpye

[ben333]

I don't know about that one, jman... back in the day that worked but I'd guess that on one of today's processors the small condenser lacking compressor of a mini fridge would die.

[jman1310]

i was drunk - what can i say...

[bbaall]

thanks for all who replied, well ya i will be using a small chiller just like jaydee advised, so what rating on peltiers should i use in the chiller and how do i calculate?
thanks

[ben333]

as I said, about twice the wattage of the processor. So for the overclocker who wants really low temps, probably all the pelts added up is three or four hundred watts. I'd say at least 200.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by bbaall

thanks for all who replied, well ya i will be using a small chiller just like jaydee advised, so what rating on peltiers should i use in the chiller and how do i calculate?
thanks

You are still going to need to use fans though. You have to cool the hotside of the pelts in order to keep the cold side cold.

[muffy]

this basically wont work .. if you want silent dont use the TEC's as they add to much heat to the loop

[alexanderb]

unless.. you got a swimming pool in the back yard, those are excellent for cooling the hot water from a tec. (it will barely, if at all, heat up the water of the pool, and the hot side of the tec will stay cold

[Rubicashrama]

Originally Posted by billbartuska

OK, now I'm confused. How are you going to use the peltier to cool a radiator?
Most people that do what you are trying to do (use a peltier to cool the water) attach the peltier to the reservoir, ...which you could mount outside of the case.

as for the calculations, while appearing to be simple unit conversions (CPU watts to *C of the water), they are compounded by the fact that the peltiers cooling is constant, but the heat generated by the CPU varies with load. You may want to make sure that at the lowest CPU load, the peltier won't reduce the water's temperature to below the dewpoint of the ambient air, or condensation will start to appear, and, as we all know, water + electronics = $$$$. Of course insulation is an option. Then you are only limited by the ability of the pump to continue to move the ever thickening (as it cools) liquid.

Soooooo You have to decide what you want to do before you can start figuring out how to get there.
What CPU temp at what CPU load are you shooting for?

I don't think you understand how a peltier works. When you apply current to a peltier one side gets cold, but the other side gets hot. In order for the peltier to function as you envision it (cool the radiator), you have to provide a means for removing the heat from the hot side of the peltier. That is usually done with a heatsink (with or without a fan) or with a waterblock and water cooling system.

I'd have to agree with bill on that one. Even a silent fan that barely moves air helps, consider it. The best way to do it (in my mind) is just get fans quieter than the hard drive. Now I think the rule with todays processors is you want the pelt to be about twice the wattage so on a 95 watt CPU you probably want a 200 watt pelt. But keep in mind that now you have near 300 watts of heat to remove. I suppose with a couple large heater cores / radiators it may be possible but it would be terry hard to cool several peltiers and the computer passively. Another thing, your electric bill is about to get a lot higher Now all of what I just said is if you want to slap the pelt right on the processor.



Nice to meet you !

[Aadil]

hello people !!
i was seeking the same stuff..... lucky me for finding this topic thanks to all you for providing me what i was looking for....
regards

[ben333]

It's nice to see spammers taking up an interest in cooling!

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by ben333

It's nice to see spammers taking up an interest in cooling!

Whats funny is a couple posts up was a complete plagiarizing of your post earlier in the thread. They did that just to spam their links in their sig... They must really be getting desperate.

Originally Posted by ben333

I'd have to agree with bill on that one. Even a silent fan that barely moves air helps, consider it. The best way to do it (in my mind) is just get fans quieter than the hard drive. Now I think the rule with todays processors is you want the pelt to be about twice the wattage so on a 95 watt CPU you probably want a 200 watt pelt. But keep in mind that now you have near 300 watts of heat to remove. I suppose with a couple large heater cores / radiators it may be possible but it would be terry hard to cool several peltiers and the computer passively. Another thing, your electric bill is about to get a lot higher Now all of what I just said is if you want to slap the pelt right on the processor. If you want to build a chiller then you can probably use low wattage peltiers and passively cool them with large heat sinks. Now I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the formula for the prefect peltier but if you happen to be cooling an intel processor, head over to their website because they tell the heat output of the processor. Then as I have been told (but may be wrong) you want a peltier of twice the processors wattage to go right on the processor. But a pelt of any wattage can help water cooling but remember if you don't cover that however many watts of heat you have then you still must have a radiator. Also in case you were wondering I strongly recommend a pump.

Originally Posted by Rubicashrama

I'd have to agree with bill on that one. Even a silent fan that barely moves air helps, consider it. The best way to do it (in my mind) is just get fans quieter than the hard drive. Now I think the rule with todays processors is you want the pelt to be about twice the wattage so on a 95 watt CPU you probably want a 200 watt pelt. But keep in mind that now you have near 300 watts of heat to remove. I suppose with a couple large heater cores / radiators it may be possible but it would be terry hard to cool several peltiers and the computer passively. Another thing, your electric bill is about to get a lot higher Now all of what I just said is if you want to slap the pelt right on the processor.



Nice to meet you !

[ben333]

Wow, I didn't even notice that. I even read the first line of his post

[jonusb5]

Considering the seriousness of NY Escort the problem, it is high time to take effective measures to strengthen college students NY Escorts conciousness of being grateful. First, parents should improve self-quality and influence children by NY Asian Escorts their own behaviors. Second, our NY Asian Escort society and schools must increase input in moral education,