Just another post....

[Etacovda]

I've found that its not about water flow or hose size or any of those marketable things.

I'm running part of my aquarius II system (the block and rad) that uses the small hose and I have a new pump/water container.

As I found with the aquarius II system the art in getting it to work was to keep the ambient temp of the water in the reservior as low as possible. The rest of the system wasn't important.

You can work it out.

Joules = watts x seconds.

So we have a CPU thats using max 89 watts (P4 3.0C) which gives 89 joules per sec (about 320k/hour)

it takes 1 kilo-calorie (4200 joules approx) to heat 1 litre of water 1 deg C.

So you can work out how long it will take a P4 3.0C to heat up a litre of water 1 deg.

The important thing to note is that its likely that the surface area of 1 litre of water will radiate heat faster than the CPU would be able to heat it up - so it will probably stay at room (ambient) temp.

Now the problem becomes that of storing a litre of water in your machine. It takes up 1000 cu.cm of space.

Using a rad means you can increase the surface area of the water - so you can use less water. Or if you are not using a rad - you just need to make sure that their is sufficient airflow over the reservoir so that the ambient temp does not rise.

The flow rate of the water is not really important - so long as the water mixes in the reservoir properly - it wont rise above ambient. Remember that if you keep your reservoir inside the case the ambient case temp will often be much higher than outside the case.

Another way of puttin it would be to say - so long as the reservoir of water can radiate heat faster than the cpu can heat it up - the system will stay cool.

An unnamed individual, trying to tell a newbie what he needs to do with his watercooling system.. 'just add more water!'

Worst part is, its an overclockers forum... and this member has been around for quite some time, I think.

Pretty good example of misconception, thought you guys might want to have a chuckle at it; a good example of whats been floating around recently?

edit:: the new pump/watercontainer he is talking about is a mitron POS 400lph, 0.6m head 800ml(ish) pump/res combo.

[rundymc]

care for another

enjoy the section on reservoirs and cooling
also notice the COMPLETE lack of critique on the product's Al reservoir

[jaydee]

Ummmm, so all that tells me is it will take a little longer to heat up the extra water before your right back were you started..... So somehow, defying all logic and basic physics, this rez can cool water to the point of ambient temps!?!
Did I see this guy mention not using a rad at all and just adding airflow on the res to keep water temps to ambient?
Also is that a sharp 90 in that res on the outlet?

Sigh.....

[Etacovda]

"Nowadays there are various high quality water blocks from different manufacturers. Many of these manufacturers do not only focus on the appearance of the water block, rather they focus on its actual quality as well. It is a given that having a well constructed water block can instantly knock a couple of degrees of the temperature off. The picture above displays what Coolermaster has to offer, in this regard. The water block is a true beauty, and it is hard to imagine that this elegant device is part of an all-in-one water cooling kit. We would not be able to compare the performance of this water block with others of its kind in our review, but judging by the way it has been constructed, it seems the block will do its job quite well. Though it is small, measuring only 71x50x4mm, it is very effective is removing hot air. This is in part due to the fin-like components above the CPU which aid in cooling. The block is constructed with both copper and acrylic, and it doesn’t seem to have specific water-in or water-out specification. Installation is made easy by the water block’s plate fittings which are attached with a screwdriver."

Interesting, I never thought a block 'removed hot air'...
Also, yet another apparently completely flat base...

Impressive - a cpu thats 0.9 degrees above the water temp under full load!

Should we politely email this man?

[rundymc]

you can actually tell from the pic that there are a few imperfections on the base

[Etacovda]

Jaydee - of course! the only reason we use a radiator is for size, didnt you know?
rundymc - total sarcasm

Also, of cross reference to my quoted post and the review that you posted run;

"However, note that the size of the reservoir can only take up to 450ml of liquid, which may not be enough for an extreme overclocking."

[OneMadPoptart]

What a great quote from that article:

Notice the radiator’s condition. It is in superior condition without any bending or damage to any of the pins. Having a decent radiator is one of the most important factors in cooling the water. Some might believe that having a bigger reservoir would be more effective for cooling but I remember seeing a benchmark a long time ago, where the results suggested that without a radiator the water would become hot like the water you use in the bathtub.

And my personal favorite about the waterblock:

Though it is small, measuring only 71x50x4mm, it is very effective is removing hot air. This is in part due to the fin-like components above the CPU which aid in cooling.

Wow.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by rundymc

care for another

enjoy the section on reservoirs and cooling
also notice the COMPLETE lack of critique on the product's Al reservoir

Anyone notice anything wrong with this picture from the review?

[Chew_Toy]

Nice probe placement.

[Etacovda]

Also, the probe visably moves in the gif to godknowswhere

[AntiBling]

deleted post

[OneMadPoptart]

Wow...I didn't notice the probe. Amazing. Simply amazing...

[Chew_Toy]

To me its not so much it moves as the fact it is even there.

[Razor6]

Originally Posted by Chew_Toy

To me its not so much it moves as the fact it is even there.

I like the fact that it got the best appearance award.

[Etacovda]

"nope. Ive used 3 different thermal probes including a medical grade lazer probe.

All results are accurate on mobo +/- 2 deg max.

My ambient at the moment is 22C and you are telling me an Intel CPU should be running at 25 deg above that = 50C.

Bugger off

Its never been that high - even the time when I forgot to put water in the block and ran it air cooled.

None of you guys have even considered the insulating effect of any of the plastic hoses, reservoirs or anything.

Its sounds like your all using crazy academic theory to me."

What happens when you try to get someone to see reason. Oh well, i dont think this kind of thing is possible to stop... is it? (hes running a p4 3.0C @ 3.4 and claiming a 3 deg over ambient temp at what he claims is an 89w heat output)

Im failing to see, seriously, how something can be done about it. This guys refusing to read; i posted thermaltakes own C/W graph, with 90w @ 24ish degrees shown on the graph. Hopefully a pretty picture will get the point across.

Nope, the graph didnt get the point across; hes wanting to 'see the maths' after he posted his own maths about the 1L of water never being able to heat up (of course, he neglected to show the surface area of the water, or the thermal gradient of the tim/copper/rad etc etc etc)

Its too frustrating arguing with people like this; they are adament in their assumptions, and they refuse to look at things in a different manner. This is why procooling is hated, because procooling is at the opposite end of this equation, with the facts to back it up; when they deny what 'we' (again, loosely) say, we tell them to go shove some form of suppositry up their arse. Whats the bloody point in arguing with people like this? its frustrating, and seemingly pointless. He will _not_ think any differently, no matter how much 'evidence' i give him...

[msv]

*Sigh*
In another thread I spoke against flaming incompetent testers.
Maybe I should reconsider.
I´m by far no skilled WB-tester, but even my eye spotted a few doubtful things in that review.
"It is a given that having a well constructed water block can instantly knock a couple of degrees of the temperature off"
Amazing. It´s so relieving to know that.
Shit, I´m getting mean.
regards
Mikael S.

[OneMadPoptart]

Originally Posted by Etacovda

Its never been that high - even the time when I forgot to put water in the block and ran it air cooled.

None of you guys have even considered the insulating effect of any of the plastic hoses, reservoirs or anything.

When I think of watercooling, I naturally think of insulators

Oh my....

And where the hell are these passive heatsink blocks that keep a processor within 3 degrees of ambient...Someone could make a fortune with one of those

[OneMadPoptart]

I know this is getting close to not being funny anymore, but read this:

After you have done this, turn on the PC and just make sure no water is leaking from the device. Pay close attention when checking for leaks because even a small drip on the motherboard will force you to go on an unexpected shopping trip to get a new motherboard. However, we didn’t find any leaks from Coolermaster’s mighty Aquagate! The tubes are tightly secured so all is well

So wait...nobody ever told this guy it's ok to test a brand new watercooling setup without his precious hardware components close by? Sheesh...

I would have loved to see his review that said "I turned my computer on and ZAP!@$#. The aquagate just killed my motherboard and videocard because of a small leak from the hoses... I consider this a failure on the Aquagate's part to warn us about the possibility of water shorting out components when there is electricity running through the system..."

[BillA]

msv
careful, its catching
I too used to be real nice before I hit this place, bad company
LOL

[Kobuchi]

Originally Posted by Unnamed Individual

Another way of puttin it would be to say - so long as the reservoir of water can radiate heat faster than the cpu can heat it up - the system will stay cool.

I'm ticked off at him because he's ignorant. When I'm in the tub, my body temp warms the water. The water does not magically cool all by itself. It will just keep getting hotter. Surface area of reservoir doesn't matter. Lakes, oceans, full of mammals - it's the flow rate and heatercores. Fool.

[rundymc]

Originally Posted by OneMadPoptart

snip....

read about the tissue paper

[Etacovda]

See, and you're not even arguing with him

Now put into effect the fact hes calling me an idiot because i refuse to 'show him the math', and saying i dont know much about 'pc architecture'... wtf does pc archtecture have to do with cooling a specific heat load?

This has gone on for pages, and I have yet to resort to name calling, and its increasingly hard. Ive called him stubborn, and thats about it.

frustration personified. I can understand bill's 'straight to the point, no bullshit or **** off' attitude now.

[BillA]

msv
see, another's got the uglies now

[Kobuchi]

Originally Posted by Etacovda

hes calling me an idiot... saying i dont know much about 'pc architecture'

This has gone on for pages, and I have yet to resort to name calling

Oh! I see. I thought you were just scouting up dubious posts, to here, so we could all snicker and feel superior.

A real argument with "you are an idiot" must be frusterating. It seems to me his main point was that a large enough reservoir will do the job of a radiator. That's correct, in theory, isn't it? Maybe he thinks you're denying it. Of course the longer you two flame each other, the more particulars you'll find to disagree over.

[Butcher]

Originally Posted by Kobuchi

I'm ticked off at him because he's ignorant. When I'm in the tub, my body temp warms the water. The water does not magically cool all by itself. It will just keep getting hotter. Surface area of reservoir doesn't matter. Lakes, oceans, full of mammals - it's the flow rate and heatercores. Fool.

I tend to notice the water gets cool pretty quick... But then a human body only produces about 95W while lying in a bath, while the surface area of the water is quite large (especially compared to anything in use in water cooling).